So, I'm considering Unitarianism.

[Upchurch]

I'm getting married in just over three months and, in scouting out places to hold the ceremony, my fiancee and I came across the Unitarian Church.

My fiancee comes from a mixed Catholic/Lutheran background mingled with being a strong personality based on free thought. The end result is that she is what I would call independently religious. That is to say, religious while lacking doctrine or dogma.

I grew up going to a Deciples of Christ church in small college town. Somewhere in the middle of high school I decided I wanted to be a scientist and adopted a semi-militant hard atheism. (Think AtheistWorld without being nearly as confrontational.) During college, I backed off of from the extreme and settled into an easy-going soft or philosophical atheism. In other words, I start with the assumption of a completely naturalistic world but aware of the possibility that there might be something that breaks that assumption and willing to acknowledge it, should it present itself.

So, back to my story, we found the Unitarian Church, a mix of gothic and modern in design, which appeals to my architect fiancee a great deal. In order to check out the interior, we went to a service. Once you got past the ceremony, the singing, and the read-alongs, you get to the "sermon". I put "sermon" in quotes because it was really more like a philosophy lecture or paper presentation. All of the referenced sources of material were relatively new (within the last 150 years or so) and it was extremely interesting.

We've been back several times, off and on, it's been just as interesting each time. They are in the process of hiring a new minister and members of the congregation having been running the service. I'm amazed at how smart these folks are in a wide range of areas. I'm trying to figure out a way to sneak a notebook in without being too obvious about it.

I picked up a little pamphlet entitled "Unitarianism As A Way Of Faith" by Earl K. Holt III. Here is an excerpt:

A CHURCH IS NOT A CREED. However, most people understand it that way, so it is sometimes difficult to explain the concept of a creedless church, but that is what we are. We have no creed. Unitarians are people to whom the questions religion asks are more important than common adherence to any one set of responses or answers to those questions. Unitarians are people who believe in the church, that is, in the importance of religious community, but do not define that community by doctrinal conformity. Thomas Jefferson once reffered to himself as "a Unitarian by myself," but most of us feel that religion includes a social as well as a personal dimension. A creedless church encourages the continuing religious growth of its members, young and old. It encourages appreciation of perspectives which differ from our own. It encourages taking personal responsibility for our beliefs and values - and accepting the consequences of the actions which follow from them.

(pardon any typos that I may have introduced in copying the quote)

The community aspect appeals to my fiancee and the philosophy talks (a.k.a. "sermons") appeals to me. So, we considering joining up. (It doesn't hurt that members get a discount on the wedding ceremony fees, either.) My question is, does anyone know anything about Unitarianism that might make me/us reconcider joining?

 

[Yahweh]

Congratulations, UpChurch! I see the old ball-n-chain--d'oh!--fiancee and you have decided get married. Super Cool!

I dont know much about Unitararianism. Although it is almost a completely non-dogmatic sect of monotheism, dont let the church brainwash you into having crazy beliefs such as intelligent design and devine intervention, otherwise I say the church as a philosophical place is very nice. If the church starts getting a little "culty", get out (and steal whatever you can ).

Unrelated, but there are 4 churches within walking distance of my house, and about 25 others within a 30 minute driving radius from my house. Why the need for so many churches?

 

[Sindai]

Where do you live? That's certainly about average for us here in the bible belt.

 

[Crossbow]

Upchurch:

I was married by a Unitarian minister who did not have any problem with my lack of religious beliefs.

Unitarians certainly do have eloquent writings and egalitarian ideals. I went to several Unitarian services as well and they were quite enlightening regarding other faiths and ideas, and most of the people at the services were friendly and sociable.

For what it is worth, my limited experience showed me that when it came right down to it, the services were more of a social gathering and that very few actually tried to hold themselves to the ideals as they promised to do.

 

[Upchurch]

Congratulations, UpChurch! I see the old ball-n-chain--d'oh!--fiancee and you have decided get married. Super Cool!

Thanks. as excited as we are, we're both ready for it to be over with. Our Plan B (Las Vegas) looks more and more attractive as the date approaches.

I dont know much about Unitararianism. Although it is almost a completely non-dogmatic sect of monotheism, dont let the church brainwash you into having crazy beliefs such as intelligent design and devine intervention, otherwise I say the church as a philosophical place is very nice. If the church starts getting a little "culty", get out (and steal whatever you can ).

The only time I really get a sense of monotheism is during the "churchy" portion of the service: in the songs and prayers, etc where "God" is referenced, but it seems more like a carry over from Unitarianism's Christian roots more than any genuine adherence to monotheism. This become more evident to me during the sermons when "God" seems more like a reference tool meaning the universe or nature. In other words, "God" in Unitarianism seems to be an un-personified generalized concept rather than the traditional anthropomorphic father figure from Christianity.

Like I said, I gotta find a way to take notes. I think there are some great R&P thread topic starters to be had there.

Funny you should mention intelligent design, a couple of weeks ago, one of the hymns (which normally boar me to tears) actually referenced evolution as being true! It took me pleasently by surprise.

 

[BillyTK]

Strange co-incidence; architecture was the deciding factor for my (then) fiancee in her marriage venue decision making as well...

I've got absolutely no idea about Unitarianism though, but good luck to you and the (prospective) missus with getting hitched!*

*Translations on request

 

[Upchurch]

Unitarians certainly do have eloquent writings and egalitarian ideals. I went to several Unitarian services as well and they were quite enlightening regarding other faiths and ideas, and most of the people at the services were friendly and sociable.

That's been our experience as well. The minister we talked to suggested a lot of things for ceremony including a wide range of secular quotes (as opposed to Biblical readings) and even a Native American prayer.

As for friendly and sociable, we went this previous Sunday and got a treat. The lady giving the sermon took the opportunity to give a rather scathing critique (although presented in a sociable way) of the previous minister's administration as well as President Bush's. My fiancee and I just looked at each other and thought "whoa". It was by far more entertaining than anything I got from church growing up.

 

[Ruby]

I'm getting married in just over three months and, in scouting out places to hold the ceremony, my fiancee and I came across the Unitarian Church.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!!

I have been in contact with some local UU's where I live. I have been considering going to one of their services. I like so much about it. I like the fact that you can be a liberal Christian, pagan, buddhist, atheist or agnostic and attend their fellowships.

They don't have a creed or rules or forumlas. To me, it seems more like a club.

I like it that they don't have a paid minister or clergy. They don't collect tithes!!! To become a voting member you have to pay a fee, but I think that's fine.

I like the fact that after the "sermon" you can sit and debate or discuss it with everyone..including the person who gave it.

The only negative info I have read is from fundamental Christians. Naturally, to them, anyone who is UU is a heretic.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: So, I'm considering Unitarianism.

The only negative info I have read is from fundamental Christians. Naturally, to them, anyone who is UU is a heretic.

My parents have a friend (a unitarian) who has a funny story about that. He was in a Catholic hospital filling out paperwork when the nun behind the counter noted that he hadn't filled in what religion he was. He took back the form and entered "Unitarian". When he gave it back to the nun, she scratched it out and wrote "None".

I like it that they don't have a paid minister or clergy.

This one actually does have a paid minister. I don't know what that means. Maybe the one who are familiar with just voted not to have one or maybe the one I know just voted to have one. I'm not sure what's the norm. I do know however that you can train to be a unitarian minister since, obviously, this woman did.

I like the fact that after the "sermon" you can sit and debate or discuss it with everyone..including the person who gave it.

I like the fact that the "sermon" is interesting enough to debate.

 

[arcticpenguin]

I'm afraid I just don't 'get it' about Unitarianism. If it's really a social club and not a 'church' in the sense that most people mean, why not call it that? If your 'religion' has no creed and no dogma, is it really a religion in the sense in which most people use the term?

Anyway, happy wedding.

 

[HarryKeogh]

I'm afraid I just don't 'get it' about Unitarianism. If it's really a social club and not a 'church' in the sense that most people mean, why not call it that? If your 'religion' has no creed and no dogma, is it really a religion in the sense in which most people use the term?

Anyway, happy wedding.

first off, congrats

secondly, i had the same thoughts as AP as i was reading the posts to this thread. well, time for me to google "unitarianism"

 

[ebola]

Congratulations, Upchurch.

Remember, if the new minister shows up and things become bizarre, you have plan B, the relative normalcy of Las Vegas.

Eric

 

[Brown]

Old joke:

When a Unitarian dies, he doesn't go to heaven. Instead, he goes to a place where he learns about heaven.

 

[Ruby]

I'm afraid I just don't 'get it' about Unitarianism. If it's really a social club and not a 'church' in the sense that most people mean, why not call it that? If your 'religion' has no creed and no dogma, is it really a religion in the sense in which most people use the term?

I don't think the UU's refer to their gatherings as "church". The one here in my town calls itself a "fellowship" in place of using "church".

 

[Ruby]

Re: Re: Re: So, I'm considering Unitarianism.

My parents have a friend (a unitarian) who has a funny story about that. He was in a Catholic hospital filling out paperwork when the nun behind the counter noted that he hadn't filled in what religion he was. He took back the form and entered "Unitarian". When he gave it back to the nun, she scratched it out and wrote "None".

That's funny!!

This one actually does have a paid minister. I don't know what that means. Maybe the one who are familiar with just voted not to have one or maybe the one I know just voted to have one. I'm not sure what's the norm. I do know however that you can train to be a unitarian minister since, obviously, this woman did.

Yes, I am sure it has to do with how the vote goes. The local UU fellowship here has several speakers.

 

[Ruby]

Old joke:

When a Unitarian dies, he doesn't go to heaven. Instead, he goes to a place where he learns about heaven.

 

[Duncan]

Congratulations, Upchurch. I wish you and your fiancee only the best. Also, very interesting thread, as I had never heard of a Unitarian religion before. My interest aroused, I did a little search and here is just a smidgeon of what I found. The following was taken from my local unitarian church, which, by the way, only has 16 members.

Unitarian-Universalists are many and varied in their spiritual beliefs, and there is no single belief about the appropriate, prescribed path to spiritual growth that is the “correct” path for each person. The church provides challenges, resources and the support of a loving, caring, and thinking community for the spiritual development of all of its members, each according to need. Our church is open to all.
There is no required creed or set of beliefs to which Unitarian-Universalists must subscribe. However, the Unitarian Universalist congregations typically affirm and promote seven principles as follows:
· the inherent worth and dignity of every person
· justice, equity and compassion in human relations
· acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
· a free and responsible search for truth and meaning
· the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
· promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence, of which we are a part
· the goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all

The Unitarian faith has roots in early Christianity, from the split that existed in the Christian church at the time of the Christian Council of Nicea, in the year 325, to the religious ferment that existed during the time of the Protestant Reformation. Critical thinkers and readers of the Bible pointed out that there was no Scriptural basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, or the concept of God as three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). These questioning people felt that the Bible should be interpreted by a rule of reason, and rejected official Church teachings. Because they did not believe in the Trinity, they were called Unitarians. The Unitarian church in America continued their focus on interpreting the Bible according to rational thought, and over the years, the church evolved under the influence of new waves of thought, including humanism and transcendentalism, which shifted the focus of the church beyond the Bible, to include many different views of spirituality and the world.
The Universalist Church developed in the 1700’s by those who rejected harsh Puritan, Calvinist doctrines of pre-destination, where most people were thought to be pre-destined to damnation regardless of their beliefs or activities. Universalists espoused a doctrine of universal salvation for believers, and felt that there should be a measure of accountability in human behavior.
Both Unitarian and Universalist believers were active in good works, education and social justice, helping to establish public schools, working towards prison reform, women’s rights, hospital reform, and abolitionist causes. In 1961, the two faiths merged to form the Unitarian Universalist Association of congregations, where the conjoined churches continue to work for spiritual growth, human accountability and social justice.

Anyway, it does sound interesting. I'm certainly curious. I may just have to attend one of these sermons just to see for myself what it's all about.

 

[Psi Baba]

I'm afraid I just don't 'get it' about Unitarianism. If it's really a social club and not a 'church' in the sense that most people mean, why not call it that? If your 'religion' has no creed and no dogma, is it really a religion in the sense in which most people use the term?

I don't think it's so much that Unitarianism has "no creed," but rather has many creeds, or that they tolerate any and all creeds, or those who have none at all. Hence the name. Many pagans, for example, belong to the UU. It is more of a church than a social club since it's intended for people who wish to have some form of structured spirituality in their lives and a means or place to express it, but have become disillusioned by the traditional churches and creeds. It's also handy for married couples who are of different creeds but want to attend the same church as Upchurch has found out. You are also likely to be exposed to a wider range of ways in which different people express their spirituality, something you wouldn't get in an ordinary church.

 

[Brown]

I've been to a few Unitarian services. They were ... hard for me to understand. At one point, we were told we could pray, or not. That was weird. That choice is never allowed in Christian churches, which use the universal "Let us pray."

The accommodating nature of the service made me wonder what the church stood for.

There was one thing that I found especially objectionable. The leader offered a polite criticism of Christianity, but I thought the criticism was unreasonable (I was a member of a Christian church at the time). Upon further reflection (and no longer being a member of any church), I still think that the criticism was unreasonable, because it lumped all Christians together, and basically said that all Christians believe such-and such. Well, not all Christians hold to the same beliefs, and it's astonishing how much they disagree on. (You don't get scads of denominations and independent churches popping up from doctrinal agreement; you get them from disagreement about questions that people think are pretty darned important.)

In college, one of my very best friends was a Unitarian. She was (and still is) a person of high intelligence and high ethics.

 

[Yahzi]

We had a friend ordained over the internet, and got married at a small resteraunt/hotel (that used to be a girls school back in the 30's). But then, my wife is anti-religous as I am.

Here's my Unitarian joke:

A man buys a brand new Ferrari. He's kind of worried about it, so he takes out lots of insurance. But that's not enough. So he goes to a Catholic Church and asks the preist if he will bless his Ferrari.

"Of course, my son," says the Father, "but just one question first: what's a Ferrari?"

That's not good enough! So the guy leaves and drives to a Baptist church, full of singing and cheering. After the service he asks the priest to bless his Ferrari.

"Of course, brother," says the priest, "but just one question first: what's a Ferrari?"

So he's off again. He sees a Unitarian church with a parking lot full of expensive cars, and decides to try one more time. In he goes, and asks the pastor if he'll bless his Ferrari.

"Of course," says the Pastor, "but just one question first: what's a blessing?"