So did Oswald act alone or what?

[EGarrett]

I know little to nothing about the JFK assassination, except that it's the subject of a bunch of conspiracy theories. Is the "Grassy Knoll" stuff just woo-woo? What is the 'sensible' position on this and what is the 'loose change equivalent?'

 

[Gravy]

Sensible position: Oswald acted alone.
LC equivalent: The Scholars for Truth killed JFK.

Yes, the grassy knoll stuff is woo. But you may get some takers here. KC440 is a newcomer who's fallen hard for the JFK woo.

 

[Crungy]

I know little to nothing about the JFK assassination, except that it's the subject of a bunch of conspiracy theories. Is the "Grassy Knoll" stuff just woo-woo? What is the 'sensible' position on this and what is the 'loose change equivalent?'

LC = Oliver Stone's JFK

Sensible positions = mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

My noob status does not allow to post direct links, so please add the above with the usual internet preface.

 

[bob_kark]

If you get the History Channel, watch Unsolved History; The Magic Bullet. It thrashes the magic bullet and grassy knoll theories.

ETA: They actually recreate Oswald's shot nearly perfectly. (The bullet ran out of energy at the end which was likely due to the temperature of the ballistics gel at the time.)

 

[Gravy]

I heartily second Crungy's McAdams link http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

Best JFK assassination debunking source on the net.

 

[CurtC]

It's clear that Oswald was the only person to do any shooting in Dealey Plaza on that day. This has been established beyond any doubt for any sane person anyway.

What is somewhat more open for discussion is whether Oswald planned this all himself or whether someone put him up to it. I feel pretty strongly that all the data points to him doing it himself, but I admit there can be reasonable debate about it.

 

[Nevermore]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):

Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.

1. Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
2. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
3. Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. the conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive.

The Committee further concluded that it was probable that:

• four shots were fired
• the third shot came from a second assassin located on the grassy knoll, but missed.

(Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

 

[bob_kark]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):
[/LIST](Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

If you watch the Unsolved History episode I mentioned earlier, it shows why the acoustic evidence you're referring to was faulty. They assumed that the recording used to provide this evidence was being recorded in a different area than it actually was. Basically, they had mistaken one motorcycle policeman who made the recording for another. In addition, the episode analyses the picture on the grassy knoll of "badge man" and determines that if it was a real person, he would have been standing on a very tall ladder in the parking lot rather than standing at the wall.

 

[EGarrett]

I looked at those sites and I just watched the Zapruder Film.

It's funny, you get so caught up in dry browsing that you forget it's a video of a man getting brutally murdered in front of his wife.

But...while trying to get it out of my head...to my untrained eye, seeing it for the first time, it just looks like a sniper was shooting at him.

Either way, I'm not sure I needed to see that.

 

[Gravy]

Nevermore, the McAdams site covers this in depth.

 

[Crungy]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):
[/list](Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

Last count of admitted JFK gunmen that I remember was somewhere around 25. I'm surprised that Mark Karr didn't admit to the fact.

The House Committe's acoustical study was later revealed to be flawed, when it was discovered that another officer's radio recording was included in the anaylized data. This issue is shown in Nova's 1988 special on the JFK assassination.

Now, here's my goofy and embarassing link to that particular issue. The gentlemen who discovered this audio error, is a professional drummer. A few years back, I started to rediscover the classic rock of my youth. One of those genres I enjoyed as a teen was prog rock (don't laugh). Searching the net, I found that the best forum to discuss ELP, was the Greg Lake forum (since taken down). It turns out that the drummer dude who discovered that audio glitch is a hardcore Carl Palmer fan, and was a regular there! He's also a very hardcore born again christian and was prone to all sorts of weird anti Christian conspiracy rants. I remember a particular doozy about the Halloween conspiracy!

 

[firecoins]

Did Oswald act alone? He was known on occasion to do Shakespearean monologues.

 

[Calcas]

If you get the History Channel, watch Unsolved History; The Magic Bullet. It thrashes the magic bullet and grassy knoll theories.

ETA: They actually recreate Oswald's shot nearly perfectly. (The bullet ran out of energy at the end which was likely due to the temperature of the ballistics gel at the time.)

"The Magic Bullet" was also the show that converted me to the lone gunman answer.

Unlike the complete preposturous nature of these 911 kooks, where thousands of people would have needed to collaborate (in secret), invisable missliles are used and airliners and passengers simply vanish, the JFK assassination conspiracy had some "plausibility" to it.

Even LBJ was said to have gone to his grave believing there was some kind of conspiracy. But, alas, the evidence did support that Oswald acted alone.

 

[Almo]

I still suspect there were other people involved, at least in the planning. Not sure about anything else, since I haven't read enough about it.

 

[bob_kark]

I still suspect there were other people involved, at least in the planning. Not sure about anything else, since I haven't read enough about it.

You don't know much about it but you think there's a conspiracy?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

You don't know much about it but you think there's a conspiracy?

isnt that how all conspiracy theories work?

 

[pgwenthold]

If you watch the Unsolved History episode I mentioned earlier, it shows why the acoustic evidence you're referring to was faulty. They assumed that the recording used to provide this evidence was being recorded in a different area than it actually was.

Not only in the wrong location, but at the long time (this has been the most debated aspect - the timing). All indications are that the "gunshots" seen on the dictabelt are more than a minute after the actual shooting. Moreover, as you say, the supposed "open mike" was not even in Dealey Plaza. Bowles has a lot of insight in this regard

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles.html

He claims that if you actually LISTEN to the recordings from the open mike (as opposed to worry about analyzing wave patterns), you can tell very easily that there is no way the mike was in Dealey plaza (in the form of officer McLain) at the time of the shooting. Among the things:

1) based on the engine rpms from the motorcycle, you can tell it is a three wheeler, and not a two wheeler. Indeed, the Dallas police had a lot of three wheelers for a lot of things. By analyzing engine speed, Bowles can tell things like, how fast the motorcycle was moving

2) You can hear the sirens from the actual motorcade, racing by the open-mike on its way to the hospital. Doppler effects indicate that it passes by (approaches, and then goes away). McLain caught up to the motorcade and stayed with them, so the sirens shouldn't have gone away.

Bowles claims the open-mike was at the TradeMart, where the president was supposed to be going after the parade.

Lastly, even if it were McLain with the open mike (it wasn't), they put him in the wrong spot for the acoustic analysis:

McLain quoted on Bowles site:

Now, the Committee staff Report says that I was from 80 to 90 feet west of Houston, west bound on Elm Street when the President was hit with the last shot. That's completely wrong! I never left Houston Street until after the chief said for us to go to the hospital and for someone to check the overpass. The agent didn't get onto the back of the limousine until some seconds after the last shot. I saw that happen while I was still on Houston Street, so while I only heard one shot, I could not have been on Elm Street until after the shots had been fired. Had the Committee staff told me what they had in mind, it would have made a difference in my testimony. They were at least deceitful if not outright dishonest with me.

Bowles even knows whose mike it was that was stuck open, but doesn't name him

THE MOTORCYCLE WITH THE STUCK MICROPHONE
Several three-wheel officers, assisted by relief officers, were assigned to work major intersections on the motorcade route along Cedar Springs Road and on Harwood Street to Main Street. One of these, Officer "K," completed his assignment about 12:23 (Channel 1) and left on his 2 1/4 mile trip to the Trade Mart where he was due to report to the motor pool by 12:30 p.m.

Shortly after he left his intersection en route to the Trade Mart, his transmitter stuck open for brief intervals during which the sound of the engine suggests a traveling speed of 25 to 30 MPH. During the 12:28 (Channel 1) time frame his mike opened again for 17 1/2 seconds. The engine speed still appears to be near 30 MPH.

Then, at the projected time of 12:29:10 (Channel 1) his mike stuck open once again and remained open for more than five minutes. During the first minute or two his speed held steadily near 30 MPH. Then, the engine sound slowed to an irregular speed for a little less than a minute.

Officer "K" left his corner with 6 1/2 minutes to travel two and one quarter miles to he Trade Mart. There was heavier traffic, a stop sign and three signal lights along the initial portion of his route. Estimating his overall trip at 25 MPH, he had no trouble arriving on time.

He went to the Trade Mart and passed time listening to a two-wheel motorcycle tuned to Channel 2. Not all three-wheel motorcycles had been furnished with two-channel radios. He, 'K," doesn't remember moving his motorcycle after he arrived. At any rate, it isn't possible to determine absolutely whether the recorded sounds of engine changes represent activity of the subject motorcycle or of other motorcycles arriving and departing, as they were doing at the motor pool. At one point in the recording the sound does seem more like the engine of a two-wheel rather than a three-wheel motorcycle.

"K" was using a relief or spare motorcycle that day, one which was not equipped with a Channel 2 radio, and one which had experienced frequent radio trouble.

Shortly after the motorcade passed the Trade Mart, Officer "K" can be heard to speak but his message cannot be understood. Moments later he started off on his motorcycle, en route to Parkland. Apparently, in checking his radio, listening to find the opportunity to transmit, he found that his radio was stuck in the transmit mode.

At Parkland, after the immediate urgency had subsided and almost everyone had departed, Officer "K" commiserated with other officers over a couple of his personal misfortunes during the day. One of these problems was that his radio had stuck open during the emergency.

 

[bob_kark]

isnt that how all conspiracy theories work?

Well, most CTers think they know quite a bit about it... However, in reality, I suppose you're right.

 

[Loss Leader]

Oswald acted alone. Ironically, it was the 9/11 Deniers who caused me to see that. Watching a conspiacy theory evolve even when the evidence of an event was as plain as 9/11 showed me that people will invent conspiracies for their own psychological needs regardless of their validity.

 

[CurtC]

It turns out that the drummer dude who discovered that audio glitch is a hardcore Carl Palmer fan, and was a regular there! He's also a very hardcore born again christian and was prone to all sorts of weird anti Christian conspiracy rants.

According to my foggy recollection of this, didn't the guy who figured out that the acoustic analysis was bogus, do it by listening to a vinyl record insert into a girlie magazine (like Gallery IIRC)?

ETA: Yes, I was right for once! Here is Steve Barber's own account of it.