Slave descendants to sue Lloyd's

[Tony]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3578863.stm ...full article

Descendants of black American slaves are to sue Lloyd's of London for insuring ships used in the trade.
High-profile US lawyer Edward Fagan, who secured settlements from Swiss companies in the Nazi gold case, is taking the action for 10 plaintiffs.

He says by underwriting slave ships in the 1700-1800s the UK's oldest insurance firm played a significant role.

I found this to be pretty pathetic:

One plaintiff, Deadria Farmer-Paellman said the slave trade denied her identity.

"Today I suffer from the injury of not knowing who I am, having no nationality or ethnic group as a result of acts committed by these parties," she said.

This woman has one thing on her mind, cha-ching!!


I agree with this:

It would be hard to prove that by insuring the merchants, Lloyd's supported the trade, he said.

"It's a bit like saying the manufacturer of guns facilitated the killing."

Edit to add: The Lloyd's of London building is an architectureal gem.

 

[geni]

We take it that none of these people ever insure anything.

eddited to add. I wouder how they are planning to cope with Lloyds less than conventional structure.

 

[RandFan]

One plaintiff, Deadria Farmer-Paellman said the slave trade denied her identity.

"Today I suffer from the injury of not knowing who I am, having no nationality or ethnic group as a result of acts committed by these parties," she said.

Money will solve that real quick.

Hey Deadria,

Mongols, Normans, Saxons, Visigoths, Turks, etc.. Ethnicities and cultures have been concurred and wiped out time and time again. History is a bitch, get over it.

People risk their lives to get here from all over the world. Many, if they are successful, count their lucky stars and call themselves American. You might consider identifying with that. Of course that won't make you rich will it?

 

[Elio]

Hello Tony,

Like anyone in Switzerland, I remember about Ed Fagan.

But in the case of the Swiss banks, he had a point. The banks were still holding money who belong to people assasinated in Auschwitz.

But In the case of the Lloyd's, what are the exact charges ?

Take care.

Elio.

 

[Tmy]

Well if she really wants to connect with her long lost culture Im sure she could find a London museam chuck full of plundered African artifacts!

 

[Drooper]

This would be interesting rom a legal point of view.

From my limited knowledge of Lloyds, it is a market and not a company. It is the participants in the market (known as Names) that underwrite the risk.

So the case would have to be filed against the Names who provided the service to the ship owners. Presumably all these people are dead.

 

[Drooper]

Actually, another thing that jumps out at me on this issue.

I saw this woman on Sky News complaining about how much mental anguish she suffers every time she looks in the mirror and remembers that her great great (possibly great again) grandparents were slaves. Obviously this "pain" is needed to establish damages.

Dreadful for them, no dispute there. But would she rather have been born and living in the Congo today, rather the America???

 

[zenith-nadir]

So the case would have to be filed against the Names who provided the service to the ship owners. Presumably all these people are dead.

And presumably the claims died with the defendants. After all how is someone removed from the incident "harmed" 150+ years after the fact?

 

[Tmy]

. But would she rather have been born and living in the Congo today, rather the America???

How is that relevent??

Woudl you say the same thing a jew trying to reclaim nazi gold stolen from their families.

"Hey, you live in Israel. Quit your complaining, would you rather be living in a Polish ghetto?"

 

[Chaos]

*snip*
eddited to add. I wouder how they are planning to cope with Lloyds less than conventional structure.

Very good question. Technically speaking, Lloyd´s is more a broker than an insurance company - and it was even more so, back then.

Lloyd´s started out as a coffee house (a café in today´s language) where ship owners who wanted to have their ships insured met with the "Names" - people who had the necessary capital to back insurance policies.

So I suppose that the lawyers would have to track down the heirs of the Names from these times.

 

[Tmy]

And presumably the claims died with the defendants. After all how is someone removed from the incident "harmed" 150+ years after the fact?

Again I point to Israel. How can people thousands of years removed after the fact now have a claim to the land of their ancestors.

Im not even agreeing with this lady, I just want to point out that old debts still are repaid in some instances.

 

[demon]

ZN
"After all how is someone removed from the incident "harmed" 150+ years after the fact?"

I`m so tempted to mention Biblical justifications for the theft of land here but you all know me, I won`t

 

[Drooper]

How is that relevent??

Woudl you say the same thing a jew trying to reclaim nazi gold stolen from their families.

"Hey, you live in Israel. Quit your complaining, would you rather be living in a Polish ghetto?"

I understand some people lack decent logical faculties, so I will type this out slowly.

A Jew trying to reclaim assets stolen from his/her parents or grandparents would be recovering something they, personally, had been deprived of. Clear damages suffered by the plaintiff there in my book.

A 5th or 6th generation American claiming how AWFUL it is that they are not living, or dying, in a civil war ravaged sub-Saharan country doesn't really come in the same class.


I call this "rent seeking" behaviour.

 

[Jocko]

How is that relevent??

Woudl you say the same thing a jew trying to reclaim nazi gold stolen from their families.

"Hey, you live in Israel. Quit your complaining, would you rather be living in a Polish ghetto?"

Very simple. If she wants to reconnect with her culture, let her buy a ticket to Ghana or Zambia or wherever the hell she thinks she still has some kind of cultural connection. No one's stopping her.

The fact is, Jews DON'T complain about not living in a Polish ghetto or a concentration camp, so why should we put up with a whining gold-digger complain about not living in Africa?

Has it occured to her that she would NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN if - and this is still an "if" - her ancestors were not brought to the US as slaves?

Christ, the only culture this broad is interested in is the culture of excess.

 

[CBL4]

Originally Posted by Tmr
How is that relevent??

Let me give you two different examples:
My grandfather was driven from czarist Russia by the anti-jewish pogroms of the 1910's. Because of this I live in the US where my family is well integrated into society and I face no persecution. I am owed nothing by the Russian government who predessor abused my ancestors and stole their property.

John Doe's grandfather, who died in the holocaust, had a life insurance policy with Swiss Insurance Company (SIC). SIC denied the policy ever existed and kept the payments. John Doe is owed the money by SIC because SIC, an existing company, refused to make a payment that they were legally obligated to make to him (or his parents) personally.

If I were so inclined I could claim that I am owed money by the German government (some of my relative were in Poland during WWII), the Spanish government (some of my relatives left during the Inquisition.) and the English government (yes some of my Jewish relatives were driven out of England in the 1800's.)

But instead I realize that I am extremely lucky to live in the US. I accept that most of my problems are my fault.

CBL

 

[Elio]

CBL4 :

John Doe's grandfather, who died in the holocaust, had a life insurance policy with Swiss Insurance Company (SIC). SIC denied the policy ever existed and kept the payments. John Doe is owed the money by SIC because SIC, an existing company, refused to make a payment that they were legally obligated to make to him (or his parents) personally.

To be more precise, John Dowe, fearing for his belongings, decided to put all his money in Swiss banks, thinking it would be safe.

And it was safe, indeed. It had been perfectly safe for about 60 years.

But as John Dowe was gased, his familly asked to have his money back.

The banks refused, denying to have the money in the first place, or asked for a death certificate (probably signed by Joseph Mengele...)

Take care.

Elio.

 

[Roadtoad]

See, this is why I think we'd be better of if just HUNG every attorney that took a case like this.

You gotta admit, they're getting more creative in how they loot the rest of us.

 

[RandFan]

How is that relevent??

Woudl you say the same thing a jew trying to reclaim nazi gold stolen from their families.

"Hey, you live in Israel. Quit your complaining, would you rather be living in a Polish ghetto?"

We are all decendants of someone who lost something to someone else. How many years do we suffer for those wrongs?

The question is quite relvant. She suggests that it would have been better for her had her ancestors not have been slaves. But if they had not it is very likely that most if not all dendents of those who were brought to America would be living in Africa today. And let's not forget than Slavery is still practiced there to some degree in some areas. Also many women do not have rights and some many girls have sexually mutilated as part of the culture.

And if there had been no Hitler and a holocaust many Israeli families would be living in wealth in their former home land.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Again I point to Israel.

You would have a point except they sued Swiss banks not the Medianites or the Romans or whoever the hell may have been responsible for the diaspora.

 

[Jocko]

We are all decendants of someone who lost something to someone else. How many years do we suffer for those wrongs?

The question is quite relvant. She suggests that it would have been better for her had her ancestors not have been slaves. But if they had not it is very likely that most if not all dendents of those who were brought to America would be living in Africa today. And let's not forget than Slavery is still practiced there to some degree in some areas. Also many women do not have rights and some many girls have sexually mutilated as part of the culture.

And if there had been no Hitler and a holocaust many Israeli families would be living in wealth in their former home land.

I agree 100%, but again we're missing the critical factor: assuming she's right about her ancestors being brought to America as slaves, she would not even exist today had things been otherwise! She would not be living an idyllic Arfican life, she would never have been born.

If she's willing to concede that her conception fell out of an act of ""genocide" (figure that one out if you can), then she shouldn't be repatriated to Africa- she should be eliminated as a mistake of history.

Nota bene to knee-jerkers: I'm not serious in suggesting that she ought to be eliminated, simply pointing out how stupid these claims are when you go one little step further into the analysis.