Skeptics thoughts on UFOs and Rosswell

Plastictowel

Thinker
P
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
226
Alright as most know, I am new here. And I am a skeptic. I have 2 issues though that I greatly want to hear why everyone doesnt support them. 1 Chiropracting...but we can address that in the future. For now UFOs and Rosswell.
I grew up in a home where my Mom is fairly religious, and my dad is the definition of Consipiracy Theorist. and I'm a Skeptic..funny how it works out that way.
Anyway when it comes to UFOs though I'm not as critical to the idea as I am religion, life after death, higher beings, ghost, etc.

My dad asked me to read a book on rosswell.
(Just found out I can't paste a link to the book)
It's is "The Day after Roswell, by Philip Corso" , He worked for the U.S. Army Air Force and has pictures of himself doing so)

I personally hate reading if it's not online, a MB, or a new paper article. I have terrible ADD and committing to whole books kills me. But I read pretty far into this book, and the points the author makes and connections seems very fitting to society today. The connections he points out of how much we have advanced since the rosswell crash, and connection about the war at the time, shapes or airplanes, upgrades in US Aircrafts...etc.

So why are UFOs such a negative topic? I mean yeah I've seen people be interviewed on them, and abductions. And sure I think 99.9% are lieing and just want to be on t.v., are nut jobs, or are getting paid to lie...etc. But still why is this paticular subject so hard to believe. We certainly haven't traveled all of space...

And especially Roswell, I've never read a good story that explains what "really" went on, that didn't sound like a coverup.

Look forward to hearing everyones thoughts.
 
I grew up 90 miles from Roswell, went to college 180 miles from there, and spent 6 years living in Roswell.
The "Roswell Incident" was never a big thing, or even mentioned (Much less discussed) untill the 1980's. Suddenly everyone was remembering stuff like it was yesterday. Now, I don't know about you, but some things that i saw and did 40 years ago are just a bit...vague? embellished?
To quote Jimmy Buffet:
"It's a semi-true story
Believe it or not
I made up a few things
And there's some I forgot.
But the life and the tellin'
Are both real to me
And they all run together and turn out to be
A semi-true story. "
 
So why are UFOs such a negative topic?
Click to expand...

To clarify: I don't think any skeptic views UFOs as a negative topic. I am a skeptic and I myself have seen UFOs. But I believe they are simply unidentified objects in the sky. I don't jump to the conclusion that they are alien spacecraft. There's likely a more mundane or earthly explanation for them.

As to Roswell: I don't know what explanations you've heard that sound like cover-ups, but the stories I've read on Project Mogul (sp?) make perfect sense and explain absolutely everything about the incident that cannot be attributed to faulty memories or outright fabrications.
 
I'll try to find these stories.
My dad also, being the conspiracy theorist that he is once brought me a black notebook filled with space craft photos telling me his friend from the C.I.A. was letting him borrow it. I was in 5th grade at the time...very interesting stuff.
 
Hi Plastictowel,

I'm kind of new too, and while I don't know much about UFO's, I can point you to this website for some excellent info on Chiropractors.

http://www.chirobase.org/

Basically

Chiropractors who do manual spinal manipualtions to realign vertabrae = OK (sometimes)
Chropractors who dowse, talk about "energy blocks", or use devices = Bad
 
No offense, but it sounds like your Dad was having you on for a laugh. Best one I've heard is the guy whose Dad told him that when the Ice Cream truck was playing it's chimes that meant it had run out of ice-cream.

As for UFOs, you might say opinion is divided on the subject. I think we all love a good UFO story, it's just that some of us find it hard to believe there are dozens of advanced alien races appearing before hill-billies the world over and deftly avoiding all contact with official bodies. I personally am of the opinion that there are probably plenty of aliens out there, the maths says it's almost certain, but I dont believe they fly tinfoil and stick craft across gazillions of miles just to frighten half-wits.
 
No he wasn't having me for a laugh. He is very serious in this stuff, it comes with his background, his government jobs, his knowing powerful people, etc. He still swears by that notebook today. I'll admit though a lot of his conspiracy theories are totally "Wtf...you're beyond pushing it" where as a lot are "Wow...that makes so much sense it's just creepy."
 
Well,

A few things to be aware of.

1. Never any hard evidence of alien visitation. Nothing that's even remotely conclusive. We kept the stealth fighter secret maybe 20 years (and the bomber), the SR-71 lasted about 15 or so, IIRC, the U-2 about 10, I think? And we have rather conclusive proof of all of this. And, moreover, all of these were developed and tested at Area 51. Two points here:
1a. There were numerous legitimate, intensive programs going on at area 51. They didn't have time to explore alient technology on top of this.
1b. They can't keep our best new fighter craft and bombers secret for more than 20 years at best, but they've kept alien technology (which has apparantly played a role in everything we've made) secret for three times that?

2. The CIA has admitted to encouraging the UFO stories as a cover for actual activities at Area 51. I would have no doubt that the CIA book given your Dad was more of this tactic. This admission was very recent (only a few years back, IIRC).

3. Technology. YEs, we've added a lot of technology in the last fifty years. That's because science is exponential. Each bit we learn, gives us two more bits to learn, etc, etc, etc. It builds on itself exponentially, so one should expect scientific advancement (and therefore technological advancement) to come more quickly as time passes and knowledge accumulates. Not to mention there are more people avaialble to do science and tech development today. As a corrallary to this, there isn't any obviously alien technology out there. Nothing we have just "popped outta the blue". We can follow the lineage of ideas for all of our current achievments. We can see the research that, step-by-step, led to microwaves, to space shuttles, to stealth technology, and so on. Where are the anomolous inventions? The things using completely new techniques that came in out of the blue? These arguments are really an insult to humanity, much like the old "Egyptians couldn't have lifted stone blocks to build the pyramids" arguments, and wrong for the same reasons (we can see how it was done, the evidence is there if you look).

4. No matter what technology is used, there's a minimal amount of energy that must be expended to travel across the stars, no matter the method. This is tied into conservation laws and thermodynamics. In other words, it's not a technological limitation but a physical one. Any race that would expend the amount fo energy required to do this just so they could buzz cows is not intelligent enough to develop capavble technology in the first place. It's a lose-lose situation. Not to mention the amount of time it would take.

5. The descirbed movements and actions of these alien craft, as well as the characteristics of some pieces, go against much of what we know from physics. While this doesn't mean its impossible, it does mean that certain traits attributed to these craft are, at best, very, very, very unlikely. Outside the realm of physical possibility as we know it. We'd end up rewriting quite a bit of our science to accomodate it, and some of our science we know is very reasonably correct.

That should get some of the basic ideas across, and give you some things to think on :)
 
On the energy issue, even if the requirements were lower, I can certainly imagine people preferring to use all that effort on their own planet. Would you want the government to cut, say, medicare to fund a "Let's fly to some far away planet and say 'Boo!' to a Tribble" operation?
 
Mr. Amapola went to school for a brief time in Roswell so we got to spend some time there. They have a terrific UFO museum and I even got an "Area 51" t-shirt there! :D

The reason most skeptics don't take the Roswell thing very seriously is because of a severe lack of evidence. Where is the spaceship? Where are all these marvelous alien inventions? Saying that they have been kept secret for all these years is not very convincing, especially when the president of the United States can not even keep his spying a secret. In order for this stuff to stay secret, thousands of people would have to have cooperated over all of those years. Try getting 5 people to cooperate and decide what to have for lunch. That can be enough challenge.

However, I think that if there WERE some compelling evidence, skeptics would reassess the situation. Until then, it's more like a joke. I always get some great laughs when I wear my "Area 51" t-shirt.
 
Last edited:
The Roswell story is what turned me into a skeptic. It just falls apart too easily if you just look at the big picture: A silly story turns up in a newspaper about a UFO that is apparetly made of sticks and tinfoil. All kinds of new 'facts' appear in the following decades, which get less and less consistent with the original newspaper article and photo. Then, to make everything okay again, we're told the photo is really a fake, the story was lies, and the real UFO is elsewhere!

Reminds me of a story in a recent Fortean Times: Multiple witnesses and radar stations, spot fast moving objects flying from over land and out to sea! UFO buffs get excited. A 'more elaborate' witness account emerges. Objects are later identified as RAF jets by official sources. UFO buffs brazenly claim 'RAF jets chase UFO out to sea!' ignoring the fact that all the reliable evidence amounted to precisely zero, and the whole story now hangs on a single highly dubious eye-witness account.
 
Shrinker said:
The Roswell story is what turned me into a skeptic. It just falls apart too easily if you just look at the big picture: A silly story turns up in a newspaper about a UFO that is apparetly made of sticks and tinfoil. All kinds of new 'facts' appear in the following decades, which get less and less consistent with the original newspaper article and photo. Then, to make everything okay again, we're told the photo is really a fake, the story was lies, and the real UFO is elsewhere!

Reminds me of a story in a recent Fortean Times: Multiple witnesses and radar stations, spot fast moving objects flying from over land and out to sea! UFO buffs get excited. A 'more elaborate' witness account emerges. Objects are later identified as RAF jets by official sources. UFO buffs brazenly claim 'RAF jets chase UFO out to sea!' ignoring the fact that all the reliable evidence amounted to precisely zero, and the whole story now hangs on a single highly dubious eye-witness account.
Click to expand...

An interesting coincidence, however:
The "aliens" were taken to Carswell air base in Ft. Worth, right?.
Well, I work there now at a major aerospace contractor, and on the shop floor, in one area, is an oil stain. It looks exactly like of one of the Roswell aliens...
 
Amapola said:
Mr. Amapola went to school for a brief time in Roswell so we got to spend some time there. They have a terrific UFO museum and I even got an "Area 51" t-shirt there!
Click to expand...

A few years ago, I made up an "Area 52" t-shirt. The back said "Area 51 is just a decoy!"
 
Roswell

Between the years 1947-1949 my family made three trips through the southwest on the way to California and back. Sometimes going through White Sands Proving Grounds, our car would be stopped with other traffic and my parents told me the government was firing rockets or testing military equipment.

On one occasion going through Roswell, military police stopped traffic and made everyone pull off the road. We went into a restaurant to wait with other travelers and watched as a large flatbed truck drove by, hauling a tarp covered object that seemed wedge-shaped. People discussed what it might be, the term I heard was "flying wing," some kind of new plane. Nobody said anything about UFOs, a term that I don't believe had been coined, no talk of little gray men, or anything ooga booga. When the truck passed, everyone was allowed to move on. I don't know about anyone else, but my family put it out of mind and never discussed it again.

I've checked my memories with my mother, realizing that time alters events. She confirmed my impression that this was 1947. Though flying saucers later became an icon of my childhood years, it was decades before any theories came out about an alien crash at Roswell. There was a lot of military experimentation going on there then, I assume, and it may have been good cover to let the public believe in a science fiction scenario rather than announce the prototype of the stealth bomber, or whatever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom