skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

corplinx

JREF Kid
corplinx
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
8,952
On this forum I see a trend:
Skeptic for Bush: of the douche and the turd, i pick the turd
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope

Is Kerry lionized by the skeptics who support him? It seems to me that skeptics on this forum voting for Bush just seem down to earth about it. Maybe its just the noise from a few but I definitely get this vibe. There are some who say "he's not Bush but even then I see them sometimes lionize Kerry".

(By Skeptics I don't mean Patrick, 1inChrist, Dorian Gray, JJ, and their ilk)

Are we all following the herd instinct of trying to be cool and say "they both suck so im voting for the lesser of two evils" ?
 
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea where you got this from. No one, that I can recall, has claimed this. The only impression I have got is that Kerry is nowhere near as dumb as Bush as to start a war that can't be won, and even had the guts, (in his youth), to say what he thought and stand up for it. That was many years ago, but at least he did it once.
 
a_unique_person said:
I have absolutely no idea where you got this from


.......Kerry is nowhere near as dumb as Bush as to start a war that can't be won, and even had the guts, (in his youth), to say what he thought and stand up for it......
Click to expand...

The lionizing continues. Thanks AUP.
 
corplinx said:
On this forum I see a trend:
Skeptic for Bush: of the douche and the turd, i pick the turd
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope

...
Click to expand...
I think it's because skeptics for Bush have to travel a twisted, torturous road to justify their choice. Not so for skeptics for Kerry. For starters, which of these choices appears to live by skeptical principles? I know which one definitely does not -- the gut-feeling president.
 
corplinx said:
On this forum I see a trend:
Skeptic for Bush: of the douche and the turd, i pick the turd
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope

Is Kerry lionized by the skeptics who support him? It seems to me that skeptics on this forum voting for Bush just seem down to earth about it.

Down to earth about picking a turd over a douche?

Maybe its just the noise from a few but I definitely get this vibe. There are some who say "he's not Bush but even then I see them sometimes lionize Kerry".

I think it's just noise from a few, or selective reading/interpreting on your part. I, as a Kerry supporter, don't subscribe to the view, nor would any of my family/friends/associates I speak with (from my estimation of course).


Are we all following the herd instinct of trying to be cool and say "they both suck so im voting for the lesser of two evils" ?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think we're following the herd. I don't think "the lesser of two evils" is necessarily a non-skeptical position.

"Down-to-earth," "common-speak," etc., are popular reasons to support Bush, but thankfully not as prevalent on this forum as in the real world. The anti-intellectualism in America hasn't filtered into here as much...but it still shows up (from both sides of course)! :)
 
corplinx said:

Are we all following the herd instinct of trying to be cool and say "they both suck so im voting for the lesser of two evils" ?
Click to expand...


In a two person race you are always voting for the lesser of two evils. Somebody has to become President so it isn't like we really have a choice of "neither" and we just don't have a president or maybe a third person. (massively unlikely contingencies aside). It becomes a comparative choice, as going without isn't an option.


There has been a bizzare rhetorical gambit among Bush supporters challenging those voting for Kerry to explain why without mentioning Bush. This is hard to do, not because Kerry isn't a swell and great guy, rather because Bush is just so freaking horrible to some of us that debating the details of Kerry seems like silly nitpicking. He is better than Bush (IMO, of course) so I vote. What he plans on doing I really am not worried about, as the chance of him being significantly worse than Bush is nearly zero, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

I just see looking into the exact details of why he is better as a waste of time, and I completely reject the implication that the candidates should not be considered in relation to one another.

Nothing cool about "lesser of two evils." It is just that when confronted with a massive evil and a neutral, I really am not going to stay up nights worrying about the neutral. I decide if he is anywhere near massive evil. If not, wait around for election day for contrary evidence on issues that I see as material.

So far we have claims that he tells the occasional fib and didn't care much for his Vietnam experience so he was a serious lefty for a while. Yawn.
 
Re: Re: skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

hgc said:
I think it's because skeptics for Bush have to travel a twisted, torturous road to justify their choice. Not so for skeptics for Kerry. For starters, which of these choices appears to live by skeptical principles? I know which one definitely does not -- the gut-feeling president.
Click to expand...

Look. I realize we may not have a real free thinker as president for quite some time. Skepticism is about more than faith. John Kerry going overboard on the missing weapons story is a bonafide example of non-critical thinking.

Different day, same woo.
 
corplinx said:
The lionizing continues. Thanks AUP.
Click to expand...

Not at all, he is just your ordinary, everyday polly now, he would never do what he did what he did when he was younger. You aren't voting for the young guy, I hate to say. However, he would never be as stupid as Bush, the responsible Pres who has just had to beg for about $75 Billion more for his war. That's just about what Luke said Kerry's health plan would cost.

"Bring em On" Bush.
 
I would vote for "none of the above" in a heartbeat and I don't think I'm alone in this country. Unfortunately, that's not a choice.

As I said in another thread, for me it is not just a matter of voting against Bush. I am also voting against Cheney, Ashcroft, and Rumsfeld. I can't stand any of their ilk.
 
Re: Re: Re: skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

corplinx said:
Look. I realize we may not have a real free thinker as president for quite some time. Skepticism is about more than faith. John Kerry going overboard on the missing weapons story is a bonafide example of non-critical thinking.
Click to expand...

Well, duh. He's just trying to get elected, so of course he's going to milk everything in the news, whether it's legit or not. So is Bush.

Critical thinking, like rational thought, plays no part in actual politics unless the majority of voters are critical, rational thinkers. They aren't. Most people do not analyze the facts before they come to a conclusion, they simply "feel" somehow about something, and that's it. Almost everyone on this board is unusual in comparison to the majority of people because we read the news and think about it, and give arguments for our positions and back opinions up with evidence. Most people don't do any of that! For every skeptic who votes for Bush, there are fifty voters who have no thought beyond "We need to have a Christian in office to end all this moral decay!" For every skeptic who votes for Kerry, there are fifty voters who do likewise because "the Democrats are the friends of my opressed minority!"

We live in a world of idiots! Of course the candidates aren't going to waste their time trying to convince skeptics to vote for them-- skeptics make up their own minds. And they don't cast as many votes.

(wow, I'm venty today.)
 
Kerry as a hero? yes, but the same way I view any one who fought for my country. Bob Dole, my Uncle Steve...all heroes.

I genuinely like Kerry. I don't think he's the lesser of two evils. I think he's a competent, bright man whose ideals line up nicely with mine. Is he the absolute best man for the job? No. But I do believe he is a good man for the job.

I don't think that's lionizing.

And Bush, there are several key points where I am completely on the opposite side of the fence. I could never support him.
 
Re: Re: Re: skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

corplinx said:
Look. I realize we may not have a real free thinker as president for quite some time. Skepticism is about more than faith. John Kerry going overboard on the missing weapons story is a bonafide example of non-critical thinking.
Click to expand...
That's a stretch. It's evidence of a knee-jerk reaction and of political opportunism, but woo'ism?
 
Re: Re: Re: skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

corplinx said:
Look. I realize we may not have a real free thinker as president for quite some time. Skepticism is about more than faith. John Kerry going overboard on the missing weapons story is a bonafide example of non-critical thinking.

Different day, same woo.
Click to expand...
I don't think he's going overboard. But, then I've been screaming about Bush's horrendous incompetence for 4 years now. This story is actually quite indicative of how political motivations (get the war on, and do it quickly) overrode basic military planning and a goals-oriented (goal: stop weapons poliferation) battle plan. It ain't just al qaqaa, it's many other weapons dumps too.
 
corplinx said:
On this forum I see a trend:
Skeptic for Bush: of the douche and the turd, i pick the turd
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope

Is Kerry lionized by the skeptics who support him? It seems to me that skeptics on this forum voting for Bush just seem down to earth about it. Maybe its just the noise from a few but I definitely get this vibe. There are some who say "he's not Bush but even then I see them sometimes lionize Kerry".

(By Skeptics I don't mean Patrick, 1inChrist, Dorian Gray, JJ, and their ilk)

Are we all following the herd instinct of trying to be cool and say "they both suck so im voting for the lesser of two evils" ?
Click to expand...

I don't see the trend you speak of. I am firmly in the "Of the douch and the turd, I pick the douche" categorya nd so are most other Kerry supporters I have seen. You seem to be confusing a person being able to tell you WHY they would pick Kerry over Bush with lionizing him. All I can say to that is I would hope anyone voting for either candidate could tell you why they make the choice they do. Would you rahter people decided by coin flip?
 
Re: Re: skeptics for bush versus skeptics for kerry

Nyarlathotep said:
Would you rahter people decided by coin flip?
Click to expand...

I'm going to confirm my choice by flipping a coin. If it lands, I'll vote for my guy. If it stays airborne, I'll vote for the other guy.
 
corplinx said:
On this forum I see a trend:
Skeptic for Bush: of the douche and the turd, i pick the turd
Skeptic for Kerry: that kerry is a hero, a straight shooter, and is our only hope

*snip*
Click to expand...

I´ve also seen more than enough of the opposite. In fact, among those who have, so far, made their opinions known on this board, I´d say the opposite is more prevalent:

Skeptic for Bush: he´s a hero, he´s right, he´s our only hope
Skeptic for Kerry: best plate in a meagre menu
 
(By Skeptics I don't mean Patrick, 1inChrist, Dorian Gray, JJ, and their ilk)
Click to expand...
WHAT? corplinx, please. You are such a huge troll, but a big pussy. Why not just make a thread that calls us all nonskeptics, and directly insults anyone who favors Kerry? Why pretend that you are objectively exploring the herd instinct and that you are not a troll?

And what's so bad about jj? It's an insult to lump him in with 1inChrist and Patrick.
Click to expand...
Oh, but it's okay to lump ME in with them? Thanks.
 
Dorian Gray said:
WHAT? corplinx, please. You are such a huge troll, but a big pussy. Why not just make a thread that calls us all nonskeptics, and directly insults anyone who favors Kerry? Why pretend that you are objectively exploring the herd instinct and that you are not a troll?

Oh, but it's okay to lump ME in with them? Thanks.
Click to expand...
In the same way one has to torture logic in order to equate skeptics' support for Bush with skeptics' support for Kerry, so does one have to torture logic to include some lefties in the same outlier boat as the rightie crazies around here.

Not all things are equivalent and balanced.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom