SIEGFRIED VERBEKE, moron
- Thread starter KRAMER
- Start date
There isn't much to discuss.
A> He's a fruitcake
B> The claim is dangerous, and you correctly told him that it violates the rules
C> Obviously he thinks he has a method to survive the exposure. It is unlikely to be supernatural. Note how he doesn't say that he can breathe the gas, he says that he can be exposed to the same conditions that killed others. There is a difference.
He is a scumbag that is trying to gain some publicity with a trick, who was rightly denied by the JREF. There isn't much else to say.
A> He's a fruitcake
B> The claim is dangerous, and you correctly told him that it violates the rules
C> Obviously he thinks he has a method to survive the exposure. It is unlikely to be supernatural. Note how he doesn't say that he can breathe the gas, he says that he can be exposed to the same conditions that killed others. There is a difference.
He is a scumbag that is trying to gain some publicity with a trick, who was rightly denied by the JREF. There isn't much else to say.
Google anyone?
Do a google search on him. You wouldn't believe it.
Nothing can stop this guy - not even a jail sentence.
Remember, most European countries (as well as Canada) have serious laws regarding denying history when doing so causes harm to religious or ethnic groups.
Do a google search on him. You wouldn't believe it.
Nothing can stop this guy - not even a jail sentence.
Remember, most European countries (as well as Canada) have serious laws regarding denying history when doing so causes harm to religious or ethnic groups.
webfusion
Philosopher
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possibly a hoax?
I've re-read the original application and wondered something about the odd way it is presented:
Is there any chance that the application is a hoax? Could it be from someone other than Verbeke, in an attempt to place him in ridicule? (and succeeded)
This is the fax/phone # of Verbeke 00 32 3 272 1313
(from one of the links offered). Kramer, you have been in contact with "Verbeke" by email and snail mail, so where do the mails originate? Is there anything that indicates to you that the address indeed is from him?
Just curious.
{{{ You wanted comment, this is all I can come up with, lame as it is, sorry }}}
I've re-read the original application and wondered something about the odd way it is presented:
Is there any chance that the application is a hoax? Could it be from someone other than Verbeke, in an attempt to place him in ridicule? (and succeeded)
This is the fax/phone # of Verbeke 00 32 3 272 1313
(from one of the links offered). Kramer, you have been in contact with "Verbeke" by email and snail mail, so where do the mails originate? Is there anything that indicates to you that the address indeed is from him?
Just curious.
{{{ You wanted comment, this is all I can come up with, lame as it is, sorry }}}
Beady
Philosopher
Nex said:
Not necessarilly. A public display of Zyklon B's effectiveness would at least temporarily silence that particular objection, and would also permanently rid the world of one of the objection's more vocal proponents.
I hope he takes it into his head to carry through with his demonstration. Providing, of course, that he fulfills his promise that he will be the test subject.
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
Kramer,
How tempting is it to just send back an application with just "BITE ME!" written on it?
How tempting is it to just send back an application with just "BITE ME!" written on it?
webfusion
Philosopher
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This is why I think it may be a hoax --
Assuming the claimant is not verbeke but only trying to cast verbeke as an idiot and a moron, then the entry of a claim here certainly is working really well in the pursuit of that end.
Kramer, what about it? Can you authenticate Verbeke himself being the author of the application, or is there some way to verify that he isn't?
I really want it to be him, in case you are wondering. As an Israeli, I have no use for Nazis or Holocaust apologists/deniers.
(BTW, I am a close relative of "the Pianist" Wladyslaw Szpilman, a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto Massacres).
Assuming the claimant is not verbeke but only trying to cast verbeke as an idiot and a moron, then the entry of a claim here certainly is working really well in the pursuit of that end.
Kramer, what about it? Can you authenticate Verbeke himself being the author of the application, or is there some way to verify that he isn't?
I really want it to be him, in case you are wondering. As an Israeli, I have no use for Nazis or Holocaust apologists/deniers.
(BTW, I am a close relative of "the Pianist" Wladyslaw Szpilman, a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto Massacres).
Beady
Philosopher
Re: This is why I think it may be a hoax --
If you have followed the links Kramer provided, then there's really very little need to cast Verbeke as an idiot and moron. His own actions and the public record have already done that. While it is usually beneficial to ice a cake, there's not normally a purpose to layering more icing onto icing that's already there.
webfusion said:
If you have followed the links Kramer provided, then there's really very little need to cast Verbeke as an idiot and moron. His own actions and the public record have already done that. While it is usually beneficial to ice a cake, there's not normally a purpose to layering more icing onto icing that's already there.
webfusion
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did you know about Verbeke before?
How many of the thousands of readers on JREF previously were aware of Verbeke? It is not inconceivable that a Danish person who was disgusted by Verbeke's outrageous public claims decided to bring his name (and background) into the light through the method of the famous James Randi Million Dollar Challenge. The hoax is easy enough to perpetrate.
What makes me suspicious is the way the ZyklonB effects are decribed in the application:
"Hundreds of thousands (even millions) of Jewish people are killed in the Auschwitz gas chambers by hydrogen cyanide (HCN) in the form of Zyklon B."
This is an admission that the deaths occurred.
I wonder if the real Verbeke would concede the point. His entire POV is that there were never any actual death-gas chambers, and only de-lousing or hygenic rooms exisited ("the showers").
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually, I hope you never hear further from the guy. A pox on his house.
How many of the thousands of readers on JREF previously were aware of Verbeke? It is not inconceivable that a Danish person who was disgusted by Verbeke's outrageous public claims decided to bring his name (and background) into the light through the method of the famous James Randi Million Dollar Challenge. The hoax is easy enough to perpetrate.
What makes me suspicious is the way the ZyklonB effects are decribed in the application:
"Hundreds of thousands (even millions) of Jewish people are killed in the Auschwitz gas chambers by hydrogen cyanide (HCN) in the form of Zyklon B."
This is an admission that the deaths occurred.
I wonder if the real Verbeke would concede the point. His entire POV is that there were never any actual death-gas chambers, and only de-lousing or hygenic rooms exisited ("the showers").
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually, I hope you never hear further from the guy. A pox on his house.
Beady
Philosopher
Re: did you know about Verbeke before?
"Famous"? I'm the only person I know who's heard of it. No, that's not quite true; I do know people who know about it, but only because I've told them.
So, what you're saying is, some anonymous Dutch vigilante doesn't think Verbeke's own publicity seeking has been effective enough, and has decided to help him out by doing a "Joe job" on him, thus taking the risk (if the scheme is uncovered) of making Verbeke appear as a victim?
Well, you've convinced me.
Unless, of course, Verbeke is only making it appear that an anonymous Dutch vigilante is persecuting him by faking a Challenge application, thus making him appear as a victim and thereby garnering sympathy and support.
Y'know, I think my version makes more sense than yours does.
webfusion said:
"Famous"? I'm the only person I know who's heard of it. No, that's not quite true; I do know people who know about it, but only because I've told them.
So, what you're saying is, some anonymous Dutch vigilante doesn't think Verbeke's own publicity seeking has been effective enough, and has decided to help him out by doing a "Joe job" on him, thus taking the risk (if the scheme is uncovered) of making Verbeke appear as a victim?
Well, you've convinced me.
Unless, of course, Verbeke is only making it appear that an anonymous Dutch vigilante is persecuting him by faking a Challenge application, thus making him appear as a victim and thereby garnering sympathy and support.
Y'know, I think my version makes more sense than yours does.
webfusion
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(if the scheme is uncovered)
In any case, I am hoping for something from KRAMER that will offer more details as to where the application originated...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New database website of Yad Vashem in Israel opens tomorrow
This link is being posted as a pure countermeasure to the insanity of Verbeke. I urge everyone to take a look and recall the enormity of the loss. It was not only a Jewish tragedy, it was a Holocaust of innocent human souls across Europe.
"This is the moral duty of the Jewish people, our last respects to the victims." "The museum put some 1,500 people to work a decade ago, turning written testimony into digital information," said Esti Yaari, Yad Vashem's media liaison.
In any case, I am hoping for something from KRAMER that will offer more details as to where the application originated...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New database website of Yad Vashem in Israel opens tomorrow
This link is being posted as a pure countermeasure to the insanity of Verbeke. I urge everyone to take a look and recall the enormity of the loss. It was not only a Jewish tragedy, it was a Holocaust of innocent human souls across Europe.
"This is the moral duty of the Jewish people, our last respects to the victims." "The museum put some 1,500 people to work a decade ago, turning written testimony into digital information," said Esti Yaari, Yad Vashem's media liaison.
Beady
Philosopher
Re: (if the scheme is uncovered)
(sigh) I really have no idea why you think this is an issue, nor do I have any idea why you think anyone would think it necessary to make a bigot look like a bigot when they, themselves, already seem to be doing an adequate job of it. I do see where you said, "What makes me suspicious is the way the ZyklonB effects are decribed in the application," but I think you're making 'way too much of how a non-native-Anglophone turns a phrase.
Nor do I see why you think "countermeasures" are necessary, especially on *these* boards. You do realize, don't you, that in this particular venue you are "preaching to the choir," as it were? Mind you, I don't have a problem with you posting such links, I just think that, given the context, you are grossly overreacting.
webfusion said:
(sigh) I really have no idea why you think this is an issue, nor do I have any idea why you think anyone would think it necessary to make a bigot look like a bigot when they, themselves, already seem to be doing an adequate job of it. I do see where you said, "What makes me suspicious is the way the ZyklonB effects are decribed in the application," but I think you're making 'way too much of how a non-native-Anglophone turns a phrase.
Nor do I see why you think "countermeasures" are necessary, especially on *these* boards. You do realize, don't you, that in this particular venue you are "preaching to the choir," as it were? Mind you, I don't have a problem with you posting such links, I just think that, given the context, you are grossly overreacting.
Dr Adequate
Banned
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These people might want to know about him. Except that "honorable" is not quite the word we're looking for here.
Re: Re: Google anyone?
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According to what I saw on the web, he has been sentenced to one year in prison in The Netherlands as a result of publishing and distributing such data, and is presently fighting a similar battle in Belgium.
CFLarsen said:They do? AFAIK, only Germany has laws like that.
Evidence?
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According to what I saw on the web, he has been sentenced to one year in prison in The Netherlands as a result of publishing and distributing such data, and is presently fighting a similar battle in Belgium.
Beleth
FAQ Creator
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"moron"?
Is this guy really any more of a moron than anyone else who applies for the Challenge?
At least the only person he's willing to harm is himself, and not thousands of people sending him three easy payments of $39.99 each...
Besides, "moron" is highly subjective and unneccessarily pejorative. I much prefer the original "Belgian suicidal".
Is this guy really any more of a moron than anyone else who applies for the Challenge?
At least the only person he's willing to harm is himself, and not thousands of people sending him three easy payments of $39.99 each...
Besides, "moron" is highly subjective and unneccessarily pejorative. I much prefer the original "Belgian suicidal".