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Should Vice Pres be its own electable position?

Tmy

Philosopher
Tmy
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
6,487
Why should the American people be told who will be VP? Why isnt the postition voted on independant from the Presidential candidate. We're talking about next in line president. Shouldnt we have a direct choice in the matter. It would make for interesting politics if you could vote a VP who's in a difft party than the Prez.

What are the cons for having such a system? Does that promote assination attempts?
 
Well, some states have this sort of system (the Governor and Lieutenant Governor run on separate tickets) and occasionally you get a Dem Governor and Repub Lieutenant (or visa versa).

Problem in some states is that when the Governor leaves (for meetings, conferneces, vacation, etc.) the Lt. Governor, depending on the state's constitution, becomes acting Governor. And there have been cases where the Lieutenant has tried (especially if his party has a majority in the state legislature) to reverse a Governor's decisions or make appointments that the Governor would never make. So it can be a problem.

But on the national scene, we vote for the political party/platform/man we feel can do the things we want as President. Only makes sense to have a person who is of the same persuasion as the President in position to suceed him.
 
Am I wrong or didn't it used to be that the VP was either elected directly or appointed by congress or something?
 
wjousts said:
Am I wrong or didn't it used to be that the VP was either elected directly or appointed by congress or something?
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Well, in the first few elections, the person who got the second-most electoral votes became Vice-president. For example, G. Washington was elected President and John Adams, recieving the second-most votes for the office, became Vice. The electors were, IIRC, the Senate and House members.

This continued for several elections (and led, indirectly, to the death of Alexander Hamilton), until the rise of political parties and the popular vote for electors became part of the body politic. I'd have to look deeper into my books for the exact time the change took place.
 
wjousts said:
Am I wrong or didn't it used to be that the VP was either elected directly or appointed by congress or something?
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The VP used to be the guy who got the second amount of votes, (from the Legislature) I think.

For instance, in 1797, John Adams, a Federalist, was elected Pres and Thomas Jefferson, a Democrat-Republican was elected VP.

In 1801, they switched.
 
Article II Section 1 paragraph 3, which was modified by the 12th Amendment:

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
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And Amendment 12:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; — The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; — The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. — The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
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So, at first, the Vice President was basically the runner-up. Then, starting in 1804, Vice Presidents were voted on in a separate ballot.

When did this change, you might ask? Answer: it didn't. The electors still vote this way. When you vote for President and Vice President, you're really voting for a number of electors to cast these votes. Since they're all partisans, they're going to pick the President and Vice President from their own party—and in most cases are required to do so by law.
 
I can't imagine Vice President Gore having any power at all under President Bush. Wouldn't it just be a big waste to have him sitting there? :confused:
 
Bjorn said:
I can't imagine Vice President Gore having any power at all under President Bush. Wouldn't it just be a big waste to have him sitting there? :confused:
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Well being VP might not be so useless if its voted on rather than dictated too.

Well the VP does act as the senate tie breaker. Plus the position is usually the heir to the Prez throne after a 2 term prez runs out of time.

Seems like it was part of the constitution until it wasnt useful to the political parties. Doesnt sound very democratic to me.
 
Bjorn said:
I can't imagine Vice President Gore having any power at all under President Bush. Wouldn't it just be a big waste to have him sitting there? :confused:
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Just sitting there..... plotting how to do away with his number one rival? :D
 
Don't you have the option to vote for the whole ticket or the Prez and VP separately? I seem to recall being able to, but I am not positive.
 
DaveW said:
Don't you have the option to vote for the whole ticket or the Prez and VP separately? I seem to recall being able to, but I am not positive.
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There may be states where that is true, but it's not the case in Georgia or Kansas.
 
Washington and those around him had the right idea. The number 2 vote-getter is the VP. It would make for a VASTLY more useful VP, and it would serve as an extra check-balance to the president.

John Adams became VP. so should this years loser.
 
Who was it that said, "The office of Vice-President isn't worth a bucket of warm piss"? (or something like that)
 
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