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Should the Randi Challenge be trusted ?

jambo372

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J
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I wonder about the challenge. How can anyone be sure that it is not a fix by Randi and/or his employees.

It hasn't been unknown for magicians to cheat psychics in tests eg Richard Wiseman recently fixed a test to take advantage of Natasha Demkina.
There have also been allegations made by mediums and spiritualists against magicians testing phenomena in historical cases eg Houdini cheated Mina Crandon and Harry Price doctored photos of seances with Helen Duncan.

I myself do not trust Randi at all and I can understand why psychics don't trust his test protocols.

I think Randi (or any other magicians) certainly have motives for doing this ...
Many people find magic tricks boring but retain interest in psychic phenomena because they believe it is genuine. People know magicians use trickery - they admit as much themselves. Psychics say that the phenomena is actually real.

eg If you thought an object was being levitated by psychokinesis or spirits you'd probably be more impressed with this than you would be if the same object was levitated but you knew that trickery was involved. People may be more impressed by something if they think is paranormal (regardless of whether or not it is), than by something they know is trickery by a magician.
eg I am more impressed by psychics like Nina Kulagina who say they use paranormal methods than by magicians like Randi whom I know use perfectly normal mundane methods.

I am just questioning peoples trust in magicians testing this phenomena, yes they do know better than most other people the tricks to look for but they certainly do have motive for debunking psychics whether or not they are genuine, psychics may prove to be competition for magicians because the public may be more impressed by something they believe is 'real'.
 
jambo372 said:
I wonder about the challenge. How can anyone be sure that it is not a fix by Randi and/or his employees.

It hasn't been unknown for magicians to cheat psychics in tests eg Richard Wiseman recently fixed a test to take advantage of Natasha Demkina.
There have also been allegations made by mediums and spiritualists against magicians testing phenomena in historical cases eg Houdini cheated Mina Crandon and Harry Price doctored photos of seances with Helen Duncan.

I myself do not trust Randi at all and I can understand why psychics don't trust his test protocols.

I think Randi (or any other magicians) certainly have motives for doing this ...
Many people find magic tricks boring but retain interest in psychic phenomena because they believe it is genuine. People know magicians use trickery - they admit as much themselves. Psychics say that the phenomena is actually real.

eg If you thought an object was being levitated by psychokinesis or spirits you'd probably be more impressed with this than you would be if the same object was levitated but you knew that trickery was involved. People may be more impressed by something if they think is paranormal (regardless of whether or not it is), than by something they know is trickery by a magician.
eg I am more impressed by psychics like Nina Kulagina who say they use paranormal methods than by magicians like Randi whom I know use perfectly normal mundane methods.

I am just questioning peoples trust in magicians testing this phenomena, yes they do know better than most other people the tricks to look for but they certainly do have motive for debunking psychics whether or not they are genuine, psychics may prove to be competition for magicians because the public may be more impressed by something they believe is 'real'.
Click to expand...
How is it possible to "trick" a genuine psychic? Wouldn't they know of the trick and avoid it using their amazing psychic powers?
 
Good afternoon jambo372,

jambo372 said:

I am just questioning peoples trust in magicians testing this phenomena, yes they do know better than most other people the tricks to look for but they certainly do have motive for debunking psychics whether or not they are genuine, psychics may prove to be competition for magicians because the public may be more impressed by something they believe is 'real'.
Click to expand...

I think you might have this the wrong way around. I think it's more likely that the psychics you mention above couldn't make a living at being a magician and needed to resort to relatively small audiences of gullable people who need to believe in this kind of silliness.

JPK
 
Jambo weren't you supposed to be providing evidence for some statements of your previous threads? ;)
In answer to your oop get one of your many medium friends to take it and let us know ;)
 
Originally posted by jambo372
eg I am more impressed by psychics like Nina Kulagina who say they use paranormal methods than by magicians like Randi whom I know use perfectly normal mundane methods.
Click to expand...
How do you know the former is any different to the latter?
 
Jambo, are you saying skeptical conjurors are skeptical because they're somehow in competition with psychics?

That doesn't make any sense. People go to see a conjuror's act knowing it's trickery, but that doesn't mean they enjoy it any less. I, for one, am absolutely horrible at figuring out conjuror's tricks. I'm always stumped when I go see a performance, and it's fun that way.

If I could figure all the tricks out, it wouldn't be any fun, would it? At least, not to me it wouldn't.

But that's got nothing to do with what psychics claim to do... :con2:
 
jambo372 said:
I wonder about the challenge. How can anyone be sure that it is not a fix by Randi and/or his employees.
Click to expand...

Read the challenge: "JR may be present at some preliminary or formal tests, but will not interact with the materials used."


It hasn't been unknown for magicians to cheat psychics in tests eg Richard Wiseman recently fixed a test to take advantage of Natasha Demkina.
There have also been allegations made by mediums and spiritualists against magicians testing phenomena in historical cases eg Houdini cheated Mina Crandon and Harry Price doctored photos of seances with Helen Duncan.
Click to expand...

Sites please



I myself do not trust Randi at all and I can understand why psychics don't trust his test protocols.
Click to expand...

They are NOT Randi's protocols. The applicant proposes the protocols and the preliminary testing does not start untill they have been mutually agreed on.



I think Randi (or any other magicians) certainly have motives for doing this ...
Many people find magic tricks boring but retain interest in psychic phenomena because they believe it is genuine.
Click to expand...

It's not.



People know magicians use trickery - they admit as much themselves. Psychics say that the phenomena is actually real.
Click to expand...

That is because they are liars and/or deluded.



eg If you thought an object was being levitated by psychokinesis or spirits you'd probably be more impressed with this than you would be if the same object was levitated but you knew that trickery was involved. People may be more impressed by something if they think is paranormal (regardless of whether or not it is), than by something they know is trickery by a magician.
Click to expand...

I know you don't like to belive it, but no one has ever performed a levitation in front of a qualified magician who could verify trickery was not being used. Anyone who tells you it has is lying.


eg I am more impressed by psychics like Nina Kulagina who say they use paranormal methods than by magicians like Randi whom I know use perfectly normal mundane methods.
Click to expand...

So, you would find us magicians impressive if we lied like the psychics you love so much?



I am just questioning peoples trust in magicians testing this phenomena, yes they do know better than most other people the tricks to look for but they certainly do have motive for debunking psychics whether or not they are genuine, psychics may prove to be competition for magicians because the public may be more impressed by something they believe is 'real'.
Click to expand...

Interesting staw man you have developed there. Can you find any magicians who say they are threatened by the prospect that psi is real?

(insert ad hom insult here...I'm restraining myself)
 
Jambo I tire of your repeated bleatings about psychics you have never met,never tested(neither have I,before you say)never seen doing their feats-other than over the net,perhaps on TV-yet you blindly believe!!
We humour you ,repeatedly ask for evidence,yet all you do is start another silly thread asking the same old rubbish.Go fetch some proof,man.:)
 
Re: Re: Should the Randi Challenge be trusted ?

Psiload said:
Bullcrap.

http://www.csmmh.org/demkina/
Click to expand...

I'd bet that had they given the same test to an intelligent, sceptical, seventeen-year-old girl, she would have got better results than this attention-seeking young fraud. Not only is Demkina a fraud, but she is obviouly stupid not to pick up some of the clues. I mean, who would pick the youngest, fittest-looking subject as being the one with a hip joint replacement?

In a way, I feel sorry for her. Is she being manipulated, or is she the one doing the manipulation?

So, how did Wiseman cheat or trick her, jambo? Looks to me like they all bent over backwards to accomodate her.
 
Re: Re: Re: Should the Randi Challenge be trusted ?

The Mighty Thor said:
I'd bet that had they given the same test to an intelligent, sceptical, seventeen-year-old girl, she would have got better results than this attention-seeking young fraud. Not only is Demkina a fraud, but she is obviouly stupid not to pick up some of the clues. I mean, who would pick the youngest, fittest-looking subject as being the one with a hip joint replacement?

In a way, I feel sorry for her. Is she being manipulated, or is she the one doing the manipulation?

So, how did Wiseman cheat or trick her, jambo? Looks to me like they all bent over backwards to accomodate her.
Click to expand...
Oh brother! This is too funny...

http://www.csmmh.org/demkina/appendix.htm

One of the six test cards the Commission for Scientific Medicine and Mental Health and the Committee for the Scientfic Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal used to test Natasha Demkina, the 17-year-old Russian who claims to be able to diagnose medical problems with her "x-ray vision." This card required her to identify which of seven subjects had had his or her appendix removed. Finding the challenge dificult, the young psychic protested that appendixes can grow back. When told that appendixes do not grow back after an appendectomy, she insisted that they do in Russia. She failed to correctly identify the subject without an appendix.
Click to expand...
:dl:
 
I once had my appendix grow back, but I went to the homeopath and he gave me a 100000000000X dilution of human appendix and, using the principle of "like cures like" my appendix went away again.

Oh, wait. I'm sorry....that was a load of crap. Sorry, my brain went haywire for a moment. Maybe this nice young woman can cure that too.

How about this for a test? Get one person in a cast with a genuinely broken leg, and mix that person in with a bunch of people in casts who have never broken their legs. The game: Find the broken leg. Should be pretty simple.

I guess the hard part would be getting a bunch of healthy people to put on casts...
 
jlam4911 said:
How about this for a test? Get one person in a cast with a genuinely broken leg, and mix that person in with a bunch of people in casts who have never broken their legs. The game: Find the broken leg. Should be pretty simple.

I guess the hard part would be getting a bunch of healthy people to put on casts...
Click to expand...

Fiberglass casts go on and then off pretty easily. And they come in colors! Or you could use walking casts.
 
Is there a reason you started a thread about the million-dollar challenge in this forum rather than the million-dollar-challenge forum?

Is there a reason why you started a thread abut the million-dollar challenge without actually reading the million-dollar challenge (which can be view on this very website)?
 
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