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Sheldrake was wrong...

CFLarsen

Penultimate Amazing
C
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Homing Pigeons

"Numerous experiments on homing have already been carried out with pigeons. Nevertheless, after nearly a century of dedicated but frustrating research, no one knows how pigeons home, and all attempts to explain their navigational ability in terms of known senses and physical forces have so far proved unsuccessful. Researchers in this field readily admit the problem. 'The amazing flexibility of homing and migrating birds has been a puzzle for years. Remove cue after cue, and yet animals still retain some backup strategy for establishing flight direction.' 'The problem of navigation remains essentially unsolved.'

The inertial navigation hypothesis [that pigeons 'register the twists and turns of the outward journey'] can...be ruled out, and is no longer seriously entertained by researchers in the field.

......

I propose that the sense of direction of homing pigeons depends on something rather like an invisible elastic band connecting them to their home, and drawing them back toward it. When they are taken away, this band is stretched. If on their return flight they overshoot their home, as some of the pigeons flying with frosted-glass contact lenses did, this connection serves to pull them back again.
Source
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Not so, Rupe. Pigeons don't use "morphic fields" when they navigate. They follow the roads.

Researchers have cracked the puzzle of how pigeons find their way home: they just follow the main roads.

Zoologists now believe the phrase "as the crow flies" no longer means the shortest most direct route between two points. They say it is likely that crows and other diurnal birds also choose AA-suggested routes, even though it makes their journeys longer.

Some pigeons stick so rigidly to the roads that they even fly round roundabouts before choosing the exit to lead them back to their lofts.
Source: Daily Telegraph (requires free registration)
Search for "homing pigeons"
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Pigeons have been around for a long, long time, even before humans.

I wonder how they got home before roads were around?
 
The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as an avid nature documentary fan like me knows :)

There are a lot of things we don't know about birds. The Arctic tern for example, travels from North Pole to South Pole and back every year, with an amazing sense of orientation. Landmarks as well as stars and sun play a role in their orientation.

But as many observers have verified, birds can adjust to man made landmarks and use them for their journeys. Buldings and roads that have been there for a bird's whole life can serve as orientation marks.
 
Re: Re: Sheldrake was wrong...

T'ai Chi said:
Pigeons have been around for a long, long time, even before humans.

I wonder how they got home before roads were around?
Click to expand...

BEEP! Wrong assumption. Nobody is saying that there has to be roads. Pigeons use landmarks, that's all.

What is interesting is that if this elastic band of Sheldrake's is real, then pigeons should fly in a straight line home. A bird has a very high metabolism, and needs to conserve as much energy as possible. If they used these elastic bands, they wouldn't need to fly in curves.

However, since they navigate by landmarks, it makes sense to follow those. I am pretty impressed with pigeons being able to adapt so relatively quickly to man-made landmarks.

One very strong argument in favor of the landmark theory is that birds are also able to find the good food spots. How would they find these spots, if not for landmarks?

Don't tell me that the food has an "elastic band" with the pigeons....
 
Re: Re: Re: Sheldrake was wrong...

CFLarsen said:

Nobody is saying that there has to be roads.
Click to expand...


You're right, because I'm not saying that either.


However, since they navigate by landmarks, it makes sense to follow those.
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I would assume that every thing navigates by landmarks of some kind or another.
 
Since we all agree and we are such a happy company :), may I suggest the DVD Winged Migration ? It is not a classic documentary, but rather a collection of breathtaking pictures of migrating birds all over the world, accompanied by fantastic music.
 
www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF4/407.html

Google has several like the above on magnetic navigation in animals.

I recall during the first Gulf War the U.S. Helicopters, despite having advanced navigation equipment, clearly followed road and rail links when flying over the desert. That makes sense in case of a forced landing, but I suspect the real reason was ease of navigation. You use the simplest method that works. I imagine pigeons are no different.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheldrake was wrong...

Kerberos said:
actually I dolphins, whales, sharks and a number of other sea animals, navigate by the Earths magnetic field.
http://www.unb.ca/courses/biol4775/SPAGES/SPAGE15.HTM
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Stray thought: If birds navigate by sight, why shouldn't aquatic mammals who use ultrasound be able to navigate after a "map" of the ocean floor?

Of course, it might be difficult when they are out on the deep ocean, but nearer the coast?

Hmmm.....
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheldrake was wrong...

CFLarsen said:


Stray thought: If birds navigate by sight, why shouldn't aquatic mammals who use ultrasound be able to navigate after a "map" of the ocean floor?

Of course, it might be difficult when they are out on the deep ocean, but nearer the coast?

Hmmm.....
Click to expand...
Some of them probably do.
 
CFLarsen said:


Some pigeons stick so rigidly to the roads that they even fly round roundabouts before choosing the exit to lead them back to their lofts.
Source: Daily Telegraph (requires free registration)
Click to expand...

Do British pidgeons fly on the left side of the road? ;)
 
El Greco said:
There are a lot of things we don't know about birds. The Arctic tern for example, travels from North Pole to South Pole and back every year, with an amazing sense of orientation.
Click to expand...

Is that a laden or an unladen tern?
 
Ed said:
Is that a laden or an unladen tern?
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No, it's an African swallow. Two, actually. Carrying a coconut, on a line, held by their dorsal guiding feathers.... :)
 
Re: Re: Sheldrake was wrong...

T'ai Chi said:
. . .I wonder how they got home before roads were around?
Click to expand...

Or, since our records of pigeon observations antedates civilization I wonder how good pigeon navigation actually was before roads were prevalent. If we went back in time to observe these guys before roads were common would we see their homing abilities as anything special ie, is their current skill a result of generations of pigeons selected for their ability to use our roads?
 
El Greco said:
Since we all agree and we are such a happy company :), may I suggest the DVD Winged Migration ? It is not a classic documentary, but rather a collection of breathtaking pictures of migrating birds all over the world, accompanied by fantastic music.
Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning the music. I see the French genius Bruno Coulais composed the music for the documentary. I will seek it out immediately.
 
Believers might be wondering about the state of my chakras! I happen to like them the way they are and always will be! Nonexistent that is!
 
!Xx+-Rational-+xX! said:
Believers might be wondering about the state of my chakras! I happen to like them the way they are and always will be! Nonexistent that is!
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Whch one is lower? I say the righjt one,
 
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