Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

shanek

Penultimate Amazing
S
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
15,990
There have been numerous claims made on this board by gun control advocates about instances of DGU (defensive gun use) and how it's much more likely that the person will be killed by his own gun or has little hope of outshooting the attacker.

So, here, I present seven examples of successful DGUs I found throughout the press:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13605400&BRD=1283&PAG=461&dept_id=158544&rfi=6
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2959157
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/10474921.htm
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2716734
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/fayette/s_284972.html
http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=25180
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/284530.asp

All are from the last week or two, and notice they run the gamut of scenarios that we've discussed: more than one case of an elderly person otherwise unable to defend himself, a hostage situation, a three-way shootout, a domestic violence victim, a teenager using a gun defensively, and one where a man chased off an attacker without even firing the gun.

Now, here's my question for the gun control proponents:

Can you find similar stories of what you say are the more likely outcomes—the attacker grabs the gun and shoots the victim, etc.?
 
shanek said:
So, here, I present seven examples of successful DGUs I found throughout the press:
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your conclusions, but you know as well as anyone else that anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. I don't see what you hope to accomplish with this thread.

Jeremy
 
Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

toddjh said:
I don't disagree with your conclusions, but you know as well as anyone else that anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. I don't see what you hope to accomplish with this thread.
Click to expand...

They're not presented as evidence, just examples. I simply want the gun control people to submit examples of what they claim is much more likely with gun ownership.
 
Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

shanek said:
They're not presented as evidence, just examples. I simply want the gun control people to submit examples of what they claim is much more likely with gun ownership.
Click to expand...

And what will that prove? That you can all use Google? That some types of events are more widely reported than others? I suggest you stick to the numbers; you'll make a better case.

Jeremy
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

toddjh said:
And what will that prove? That you can all use Google? That some types of events are more widely reported than others? I suggest you stick to the numbers; you'll make a better case.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to "make a case" in this thread. I just want to see examples of what they're talking about.
 
Shane, please don't take this the wrong way, but...

We have gun-control in Australia - severe gun control compared to the USA. And for just today alone, more than 20 million people, i.e. one whole nation, DIDN'T get threatened with a gun. Either by a good guy or a bad guy or the police or the military.

Gun control is like vaccination - it measures its success by how much does NOT happen.
 
Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

shanek said:
They're not presented as evidence, just examples. I simply want the gun control people to submit examples of what they claim is much more likely with gun ownership.
Click to expand...

Jesus *** christ, shane, you are not stupid, just look at what you wrote there. Look up the logical fallacies you post uses, and don't do it again.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

shanek said:
I'm not trying to "make a case" in this thread. I just want to see examples of what they're talking about.
Click to expand...
Why?
 
Zep said:
Gun control is like vaccination - it measures its success by how much does NOT happen.
Click to expand...

5,401,177 Danes did not die today from gunshots.

None were killed by gunshots at all.

I say that speaks in favor of heavy gun control.
 
CFLarsen said:
5,401,177 Danes did not die today from gunshots.

None were killed by gunshots at all.

I say that speaks in favor of heavy gun control.
Click to expand...
So many Danes, so little pickled herring... :)
 
a_unique_person said:
What they needed was me and a fully loaded .50 Cal. Goddam Danes.

Goddam netherlands. hang on, that was the netherlands, wasn't it.
Click to expand...

You will note that no mention was made of Tundra Mammoth(tm) related deaths and mainings. The Danes are superb at misdirection.
 
Many years ago (60s-early 70s), when I was a actually a card carrying member of the NRA, I got the American Rifleman, their organic publication. (Lots of nice technical articles and reloading tips, BTW)
Every month, they would publish the "Armed Citizen" column, with incidents of DGU (never heard it reduced to an acronym before...)culled from newspapers all over the country. They listed citations for these if you wanted to check.
There would be, on average 20-25 per month, from all over the country. I do not know if this information is still being published.

I have been in police work locally for 30+ years, and would say just from my experience that such incidents are rare. We have seen and handled numbers of incidents, mostly robberies, where the store owner or employee killed robbers. We have seen any number of homicides where robbers killed victims. I have not even heard of a single instance where the BG (bad guy..) and the victim exchanged fire, or where the BG wrested control of the weapon from a victim.

This has occurred in police work, however. We have had several cases in the St. Louis area where officers have fought with suspects for their own weapon, and a couple of homicides where the officer was killed in this fashion. Of course, the officer is actively trying to subdue/aprehend the BG, and must close with him.
This is not the case in the typical self-defense situation, where the mere display of a weapon may be sufficient to end the threat.
Most criminals are not raving homicidal maniacs, and want easy prey. Why risk getting shot?
It will be interesting to see if the concealed-carry law has any effect on this. Recently enacted here in Missouri, some counties are still fighting tooth and nail against issuing permits, as they see it as an "unfunded mandate". They claim that the costs involved exceed the fees paid by applicants.
Other counties seem to be having no difficulty, and are busily issuing permits.
To date, I am not familiar with a single "incident" being reported, at least in local media.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

a_unique_person said:
Jesus *** christ, shane, you are not stupid, just look at what you wrote there. Look up the logical fallacies you post uses, and don't do it again.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Why is it you people are all to willing to discuss hypothetical scenarios of bad guys taking your gun and shooting you with it or something like that, but you don't want to discuss individual real-world occurences?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seven verified DGUs and a question for gun control proponents

CFLarsen said:
Why?
Click to expand...

Because that has to be a lot more useful than discussing wild hypotheticals.

Of course, if you don't want your claims actually to be grounded in reality, I understand...
 
CFLarsen said:
5,401,177 Danes did not die today from gunshots.
Click to expand...

Over fifty times as many Americans did not die today from gunshots, either. So?
 
Bikewer said:
I have not even heard of a single instance where the BG (bad guy..) and the victim exchanged fire, or where the BG wrested control of the weapon from a victim.
Click to expand...

One of the examples I linked to is when there was an exchange of fire.

This has occurred in police work, however. We have had several cases in the St. Louis area where officers have fought with suspects for their own weapon, and a couple of homicides where the officer was killed in this fashion. Of course, the officer is actively trying to subdue/aprehend the BG, and must close with him.
Click to expand...

Yes, I can understand that police operate in completely different situations with completely different goals, so it would stand to reason that they would encounter different scenarios. I was wanting to look specifically at how people are and aren't able to defend themselves with guns...something the side favoring gun control apparently does not want to do, preferring instead to spin FUD with wild hypothetical scenarios with no grounding whatsoever in reality.
 
My comment about the GG and the BG shooting at each other is only a local observation. I am familiar with such incidents occurring nationally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom