Settle it: Who thinks Obama is a socialist?

[Travis]

If this exchange is anything to go by this is still an unsettled issue for some.

Why would I want to talk to old Russians about Obama's economic and political philosophy?

Because Stalin etal, Mao etal, pol pot, and N.Korea all used or are using similar economic and political philosophies.

So, if Obama is a socialist who would be at home with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc please present the case for why this is.

 

[lionking]

Obama is a socialist.

I'm Spartacus.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Obama is a socialist because he has a "foreign name", is a Democrat and has the wrong skin color!

 

[Virus]

No. He just says a lot of stupid rhetoric do I can see where the confusion arises.

 

[theprestige]

If this exchange is anything to go by this is still an unsettled issue for some.



So, if Obama is a socialist who would be at home with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc please present the case for why this is.

It seems like Al Bell is implying that Obama is a hardcore totalitarian Communist.

What's wrong with Socialism, anyway?

What are the major tenets of Socialism? Are we talking about the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics' socialism, or Sweden's democratic socialism, or something else?

Do you think America could benefit from adopting more socialist policies?

If you were in Obama's place, and you wanted to further socialist progress (whatever that means to you), what policies would you promote or enact? What outcomes would you try to enable in the short term? In the long term?

 

[Rebel Yellow]

This topic is interesting because I was just having a discussion the other day about this very topic, the person I was talking with thought Obama was a socialist. When asked for the reasons he thinks this, he stated that government run health care is socialist and Obama implemented that. I countered with the fact that even if Obamacare could be roughly defined as socialist, this doesn't mean the person advocating that is socialist. I gave the example that social security, medicare and medicaid, can all be roughly described as socialist in the same way that Obamacare can, but does this mean that the overwhelming support of the programs by the public means that that public is socialist or that the country which has these programs are socialist. He then countered with Bill Ayers and Reverend Wright. It was at this point which I realized that this is a debate that can't be won, but I'm never one to back down from a debate, so I continued.

All of this being said, I know the man, and for the most part, he is intelligent and rational. Which make me wonder why people believe the things they do. I tend to think that it is a lack of understanding of what/how things work (or don't). It is usually very complex and buzz words are easier to understand and throw around. I also think people don't really understand the definitions of the words they accuse people of being.

 

[Upchurch]

So, if Obama is a socialist who would be at home with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc please present the case for why this is.

As a part 2, may I also add the question: Who thinks Obama is a radical anything?

 

[Travis]

No. He just says a lot of stupid rhetoric do I can see where the confusion arises.

Such as?

It seems like Al Bell is implying that Obama is a hardcore totalitarian Communist.

What's wrong with Socialism, anyway?

What are the major tenets of Socialism? Are we talking about the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics' socialism, or Sweden's democratic socialism, or something else?

Well when I was in college the people I encountered who self-identified as "socialists" were generally in favor of abolishing things like private property and money. That's probably some subset of socialism. I think a better question is what sort of "socialist" do those who throw that term around about Obama think he is?

Do you think America could benefit from adopting more socialist policies?

Outside of universal healthcare I think America would be just fine with providing adequate funding to the programs it already has.

If you were in Obama's place, and you wanted to further socialist progress (whatever that means to you), what policies would you promote or enact? What outcomes would you try to enable in the short term? In the long term?

I'd have a national infrastructure bank that would fund new transport projects free of political pressures. But if I ran the zoo is an interesting topic perhaps suited for more detail in another thread.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

No, regardless of your opinion on the man's politics it's impossible to conclude he's a socialist from either rhetoric or policies.

Well when I was in college the people I encountered who self-identified as "socialists" were generally in favor of abolishing things like private property and money. That's probably some subset of socialism.

Either Marxist-anarchists or communists, I'm guessing.

 

[Megalodon]

European socialism is perfectly democratic and capitalism friendly. We do however want controls in place to avoid the kind of wealth disparities we saw in the past, and are seeing again. Since we can't have a society where everyone is rich, we strive for a society with a strong and affluent middle-class, and with a safety net that allows for the survival and reintegration of the less fortunate. We also want (and have) a universal health care system. Social equality is also defended by european socialists, be it race, gender or sexual orientation.

So, I don't know if Obama is a socialist (in the european sense), but if he is, good for him.

As for him being a socialist (in the wacky american sense meaning a stalinist, which in Europe would be called a communist), people who claim that are at best politically ignorant.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Put him in Britain, or indeed practically anywhere else in Western Europe, with exactly the same policies, and he'd be a moderate conservative. And put any of our socialists in Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodia or present day North Korea, and they'd be hard-line right wingers.

Dave

 

[Travis]

What the? He wouldn't be embraced by Stalin or Mao as a kindred brother of their ideology?

 

[Dcdrac]

I would question whehter Mao or Stalin were socialistss at all, totalitarians with a veneer of socialism maybe but more like personality cult leaders than anything else.

Obama a socialist no way if anything here in Europehe would be seens as a moderate conservative.

 

[Dancing David]

If this exchange is anything to go by this is still an unsettled issue for some.



So, if Obama is a socialist who would be at home with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc please present the case for why this is.

Just because one set of people wish to redefine socialism does not make it so. It would make for poor discussion to point out all the conservatives who have done evil things.

It is an argument by false dichotomy. Ronald Reagan, Nixon, and Truman were not socialists. Eisenhower built a national highway system, that does not make him a nazi.

 

[Dcdrac]

And Nixon supposedly signed more Social Wlefare measures into law than any other president, the man would not be seen as an acceptable republican candidate now by the Tea Party lot

 

[Dave Rogers]

What the? He wouldn't be embraced by Stalin or Mao as a kindred brother of their ideology?

He'd probably be executed by Stalin, whatever his ideology, for transgressing the unwritten "too clever by half" law.

Dave

 

[Dcdrac]

And Mao during the Cultural revolution would have put Obama into a rice farm somewhere while Pol Pot would have jsut shot him for being able to read

 

[TragicMonkey]

I like to ask people who rant about socialism in the context of American politics to define the term. Some of them define communism, others define fascism, but most just splutter on about evil. They've heard the word "socialism" and that it's bad, so it's a fair use to apply it to anybody they don't like. Which is why some people accuse the same person of being simultaneously communist and fascist, atheist and Muslim, totalitarian and anarchist, and being a villainous mastermind while also too stupid to see obvious common sense.

Most people wouldn't correctly identify a Red in, under, or bouncing up and down upon their bed.

 

[Cleon]

Most people wouldn't correctly identify a Red in, under, or bouncing up and down upon their bed.

To underscore that fact, I get a giggle out of the fact that Alabama put a radical socialist (Helen Keller) on their state quarter.

 

[Dymanic]

If this exchange is anything to go by this is still an unsettled issue for some.

I'd say it's been an unsettled issue since the 1790s. "Socialist" is simply one of the labels favored by the modern advocates of what was once Jeffersonian Antifederalism in referring to their counterparts, the modern advocates for what was once Hamiltonian Federalism.