Secession

seayakin

Graduate Poster
seayakin
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Given some of the political differences in this country and what is going on in Texas with the board. I was wondering if there is a legal way to secede. I didn't think there was because I was not aware of any language in the constitution that spells this out. However, it turns out there is a Supreme Court case according to FindLaw that allows for it.

What a state (or states) can do, however, is begin the process of seeking a mutually agreed upon parting of the ways, and that process clearly exists, set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in its 1868 ruling in Texas v. White. That ruling concluded that a state (or states) could secede by gaining approval of both houses of Congress and then obtaining ratification by three fourths of the nation's legislatures. In other words, it's a tough task.
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Assuming this interpretation is correct, I'm not a lawyer so I hesitate to comment on the validity of this quote. However, I wonder sometimes if the bar should be lower. If a state had some kind of plebiscite where a high percentage (75-80%) of the population wishes to leave.

To make anything change in the process, I think needs a constitutional amendment.
 
Sounds essentially like the requirement to secede is to get an amendment passed allowing you to secede.

I doubt that any secessionist movement will succeed because you need some sort of a national argument that breaks along geographic lines. Slavery was that kind of an argument. The arguments that we have today don't cleave the geography of the nation that cleanly. Even the most Republican states in the country regularly have 25%+ of their presidential votes cast for the Democrat, and that also holds true for Democrat-run states: in Massachusetts, 32% of the population voted for Trump in 2020.
 
Does anyone really think that the majority of people in Texas want to leave the USA?
 
seayakin said:
Given some of the political differences in this country and what is going on in Texas with the board. I was wondering if there is a legal way to secede. I didn't think there was because I was not aware of any language in the constitution that spells this out. However, it turns out there is a Supreme Court case according to FindLaw that allows for it.



Assuming this interpretation is correct, I'm not a lawyer so I hesitate to comment on the validity of this quote. However, I wonder sometimes if the bar should be lower. If a state had some kind of plebiscite where a high percentage (75-80%) of the population wishes to leave.

To make anything change in the process, I think needs a constitutional amendment.
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What's interesting to me is that it's a question to be put to the nation as a whole, but not to the citizens of Texas themselves.

It would be hilarious if Texas's Representatives and Senators voted against secession, and the Texas legislature voted against ratification, but the decision was still in favor of Texas seceding.
 
Texas should secede... then they will find out that surviving without the Federal government will not be as easy as they think.

- All Texas borders (no just the Southern one) would have to be controlled - costs money
- They would need their own Army, Navy and Air Force - costs money
- No Federal money for education, health, defence or infrastructure
- Supply all their own energy requirements... they could probably do that 90% of the time, but their distribution network is ****** (remember when the system collapsed in the winter storms of 2021.... when Ted Cruz buggered-off to Cancun and left his fellow Texans to freeze to death?)
- Since a prime reason for Texas seceding is the border and immigration, they would expel all immigrants - so who's going to do all the crop picking and other **** jobs currently done by immigrants ... some fat, lazy Texans? :newlol
 
Also, they would be a brand new country with lots of oil and a government that doesn't listen to us. That generally doesn't end well for the other country.
 
smartcooky said:
Texas should secede... then they will find out that surviving without the Federal government will not be as easy as they think.

- All Texas borders (no just the Southern one) would have to be controlled - costs money
- They would need their own Army, Navy and Air Force - costs money
- No Federal money for education, health, defence or infrastructure
- Supply all their own energy requirements... they could probably do that 90% of the time, but their distribution network is ****** (remember when the system collapsed in the winter storms of 2021.... when Ted Cruz buggered-off to Cancun and left his fellow Texans to freeze to death?)
- Since a prime reason for Texas seceding is the border and immigration, they would expel all immigrants - so who's going to do all the crop picking and other **** jobs currently done by immigrants ... some fat, lazy Texans? :newlol
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Texas is a donor state, in that the people of the state contribute more in Federal taxes than they receive. Its entirely possible that they could leave the US and come out ahead of the deal, at least in terms of money. They would definitely have to raise State (or Federal) taxes though, which would defeat the purpose for many supporters.

Like Brexit, it's all the little things that would make "Texit" sticky. Stuff they cannot make go away with flag-waving appeals to patriotism. Would Texans be entitled to US Social Security? Would US citizens living in Texas at the point of Texit still have to pay US taxes? How would they determine who is and is not a Texan? Are they part of NAFTA? If not, can goods still pass through from Mexico to the US? Fishing and drilling rights in the Gulf of Mexico, water right to Rio Grande, etc.
 
Random said:
Texas is a donor state, in that the people of the state contribute more in Federal taxes than they receive. Its entirely possible that they could leave the US and come out ahead of the deal, at least in terms of money. They would definitely have to raise State (or Federal) taxes though, which would defeat the purpose for many supporters.

Like Brexit, it's all the little things that would make "Texit" sticky. Stuff they cannot make go away with flag-waving appeals to patriotism. Would Texans be entitled to US Social Security? Would US citizens living in Texas at the point of Texit still have to pay US taxes? How would they determine who is and is not a Texan? Are they part of NAFTA? If not, can goods still pass through from Mexico to the US? Fishing and drilling rights in the Gulf of Mexico, water right to Rio Grande, etc.
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Taxes, maybe, government services they receive? Probably not.

I wonder how long it would be, before they were absorbed by Mexico.

:D

At least then they'd have no problem with illegal immigrants.
 
There is a legal way to secede, the same way a territory becomes a State or part of a State becomes a seperate state.

The territory holds a referendum vote to determine the people's desire for or against statehood secession.
Should a majority vote to seek statehood secession, the territory petitions the U.S. Congress for statehood secession.
The U.S. Congress—both House and Senate—pass, by a simple majority vote, a joint resolution accepting the territory as a state seceded.
The President of the United States signs the joint resolution and the territory is acknowledged as a U.S. state seceded.

Done and done.
 
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novaphile said:
Taxes, maybe, government services they receive? Probably not.

I wonder how long it would be, before they were absorbed by Mexico.

:D

At least then they'd have no problem with illegal immigrants.
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Forget absorbed by Mexico. There'd be a socialist uprising inside of 5 years.
 
Hercules56 said:
There is a legal way to secede, the same way a territory becomes a State or part of a State becomes a seperate state.

The territory holds a referendum vote to determine the people's desire for or against statehood secession.
Should a majority vote to seek statehood secession, the territory petitions the U.S. Congress for statehood secession.
The U.S. Congress—both House and Senate—pass, by a simple majority vote, a joint resolution accepting the territory as a state seceded.
The President of the United States signs the joint resolution and the territory is acknowledged as a U.S. state seceded.

Done and done.
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That looks nothing like the legal way to secede, as ruled by the Supreme Court.
 
The new Republic Of Texas (aka ROT) would have to to extend the border fence all the way round their new country, which the newly-instated President Trump would insist ROT would pay for.

ETA: When the ROT sets in! Ah ha! LOL, I amused myself. Too soon?
 
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seayakin said:
Given some of the political differences in this country and what is going on in Texas with the board. I was wondering if there is a legal way to secede. I didn't think there was because I was not aware of any language in the constitution that spells this out. However, it turns out there is a Supreme Court case according to FindLaw that allows for it.



Assuming this interpretation is correct, I'm not a lawyer so I hesitate to comment on the validity of this quote. However, I wonder sometimes if the bar should be lower. If a state had some kind of plebiscite where a high percentage (75-80%) of the population wishes to leave.

To make anything change in the process, I think needs a constitutional amendment.
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I have not seen anyone answer your question in quite this way, so I will attempt to do so now.

Essentially, since the US Constitution does not have any provisions for the various States to secede from the Union, then I expect that some sort of long, drawn out legal procedure that would be necessary to allow a State to actually secede from the Union.

In fact, I would not be surprised if the US Constitution would actually need to be amended to allow for a State (or States) to secede from the Union.

And if a State, or States, did secede without following these procedures, then I expect that second Civil War would ensue.

I hope this helps!
 
Is this the same Texas where a couple of years ago they all almost froze to death because they can't manage electricity? I'm not seeing Texas making a huge success of going it alone.
 
I wonder if the seccesionist folks ever realize, we'll take back our property. If Texas secedes, the US will rightfully take back all their military and space aeronautics stuff.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Is this the same Texas where a couple of years ago they all almost froze to death because they can't manage electricity? I'm not seeing Texas making a huge success of going it alone.
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They got through it by burning reproductive freedoms to keep warm.
 
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