Science is sexist because it is objective, is this for real?

Science was meant for men. Women are to stay home and clean and cook. How else are scientist going to get anything done if dinner isn't served by the time they get home from the lab?

Yes I think is important for us women to know our limits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
I always found that "All I know is kittens are soft and fluffy" was a safe answer in vivas.

It is a fair question to ask what are the barriers to women entering science. Here I think 'science' often refers to the 'culture of science'. What I think is wrong is to assume the barriers for women are the same as the barriers for ethnic minorities. In the UK at least the white majority population is underrepresented in STEM at university level. BME women STEM graduates are more likely to have careers in STEM than white women or BME men. Just lumping ethnic minorities in seems to be a 'racist' attitude that the author should be called out on. (My guess is in North Dakota ethnic minorities will be native americans?)
http://www.sciencecampaign.org.uk/asset/7E74D16B-9412-4FA7-9CD361C8371DBD02/
 
I can't tell if the author really is a Politically Correct Activist or if he is parodying activists of this type.

This quotation illustrates the Poe effect very well. One can't tell the difference between something written by an extremist or something written to make fun of the same extremists.

In either case, I think the writer is an unreliable source. Edgar Allen Poe wrote many of his fiction stories where the reader can't rely on the narrater. The fictional character telling the story is obviously crazy, but he still may be telling part of the truth.

I hypothesize that this the origin of the phrase, 'Poe effect'.

It's actually called "Poe's law" not "Poe effect" and it doesn't have anything to do with Edgar Allen Poe.

It was coined in 2005 in an Internet forum similar to this one by a user called Nathan Poe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

(Regarding the paper, I do not believe it was intended as a parody, and the author is a female.)
 
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Science was meant for men. Women are to stay home and clean and cook. How else are scientist going to get anything done if dinner isn't served by the time they get home from the lab?

You mean that scientists are incapable of managing the chemical reaction of the application of heat to foodstuffs to create tastier foodstuffs? How can I trust that they could manage other complex subject matters?
 
The thing about this article is that it actually makes a lot of interesting points, but throws in just one that's ridiculous. The whole idea of engagement vs. lecture is interesting, to me.

That's what I found, as well, almost.

I think there is more than one point that is ridiculous, or at least wrong.

The author seems to elevate one learning mode over another. She criticizes the "bank" model, in which teachers impart knowledge to students, who store it and withdraw it at test time. This, she believes, is superior to an educational experience where students cooperate to discover knowledge. She notes that women tend to do better in the cooperative model.

I seriously doubt that's true, in a couple of different ways. First, I think there are certain subjects, especially mathematics but others as well, where the "bank" model really is what works best. If you get a bunch of students together to try and discover how to solve a system of linear equations, you aren't going to stumble on Gaussian elimination. Sometimes, the teacher really does know best, and the best way is to have him present the material, as a right answer, and make himself available for questioning if there are portions of the material not understood.

I strongly suspect that in the cooperative model, females really did do better in comparison to males, but I'll bet that for the "bank" model, the average student just learned better.


Reading through this paper, though, I wondered just how influential this mode of thought has been. I suspect very. One thing I noticed as my son grew up was the extreme emphasis on "group work" in lots of classes, all the way into high school. Instead of traditional learning methods, the class would be split into groups, and each would give a presentation after a day or two of work.

I found it hideous. It resulted in a lot of what I ended up calling "art project assignments". Whether in literature, or science, or language classes, they were graded on their ability to make a presentation. These kinds of projects were especially prevalent in 5th through 8th grade, and it seemed that the whole teaching method was not very effective, and was very biased against boys. They just didn't have the social skills to do well in the groups, but the girls' work, which was better than the boys, was still mediocre. I never thought anyone left those classes actually understanding science.
 
This passage is interesting:



I think what the author is saying is that competitive classes are generally viewed as unfriendly to women.

I'm not sure what to make of that. I think it might be true, but I'm not sure what difference it makes.

Yes, science course are hard for many people, and they are harder for some poople than for others, and many women might not like that. And?

Just a question: How are classes competitive? What does it mean?
 
Grades. Test scores.

If I get a 97 on the test, and you get a 95, I did better than you.

If it ends there, then who cares? I thought there might be some more to it, then just simple grading which is mostly irrelevant (just says passed/didn't pass).
 
If it ends there, then who cares? I thought there might be some more to it, then just simple grading which is mostly irrelevant (just says passed/didn't pass).

Grading on a curve means how well you do depends on how well you do relative to everyone else.
 
Grading on a curve means how well you do depends on how well you do relative to everyone else.

Ah, sorry, forgot about this stupidity. Not sure I would want to know that "hyper-intelligent" person who thought it is great idea. (Not having encountered such hopelessly broken education system...)

ETA: Well, there are exactly two fixes which would likely solve many problems at once: No more tuitions and terminating curve-based grading. AS a bonus get those textbooks to be cheaper.
 
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The author seems to elevate one learning mode over another. She criticizes the "bank" model, in which teachers impart knowledge to students, who store it and withdraw it at test time. This, she believes, is superior to an educational experience where students cooperate to discover knowledge. She notes that women tend to do better in the cooperative model.

I think you meant to say "inferior".
 
I think you meant to say "inferior".

Yes.

See, she must be right. By cooperating on our knowledge, we were able reach a superior conclusion......or maybe it's just important to have knowledgeable teachers.
 
I'd say both models have their place, it's mostly about finding right balance for given subject. There are cases like physics were cooperative model is of limited usefulness. Each student needs to learn fully necessary material. At best laboratory experiments can be collaborative.

Where collaborative model can actually work and I have seen to work is in programming and similar areas. But it ahs to be coupled with "bank" model to ensure each student has actual knowledge. (my university does it for number of subjects - project and final exam) Usually teams are highly recommended or almost mandatory (to ensure that students have experience with collaborative effort), but one can ask for exception. IIRC only I asked and got exception. (Several times it was because I used different programming language from the one thought... - C++ versus Java)
 
Courtesy of Stephen Novella's blog:

The core point that the primary speaker is making is this: Science is nothing but Western colonialism imposed upon the African people (and presumably others). The only solution is for science to “fall” – she would like to wipe away all of science and start with a blank slate, so that Africans can develop their own knowledge.


She gives as an example that Newton saw an apple fall, made up gravity, wrote down some equations, and now that is scientific truth imposed on the world forever....

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/science-is-not-colonialism/

Who's to blame, teachers in the 1980s who told students that their self esteem would be damaged if they failed their tests, told them that school was not for the purpose of education but rather to 'validate' the student...
 
It's actually called "Poe's law" not "Poe effect" and it doesn't have anything to do with Edgar Allen Poe.

It was coined in 2005 in an Internet forum similar to this one by a user called Nathan Poe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

(Regarding the paper, I do not believe it was intended as a parody, and the author is a female.)

In this particular case, instead of "is this a Poe", I would ask "is this a Sokal".
 
I like this epistemic nihilism (aka postmodernism) where the slightest mention of "conclusion" is seen as a "positivist" and "unchanging" view of knowledge. I'd say it's a bit audacious to conclude that, let alone conclude anything, but hey, long live anarcho-knowledge, unless it's derived from my own ideas, right?
 
Just found another example of a right-wing blogger exploiting the paper for their own ends:

Remember that University of Oregon study about how historical depictions of glaciers have somehow undermined the cause of feminism? This one might actually be more absurd.

The syllabi for college-level STEM courses—science, technology, engineering, and mathematics—are "gendered" because they promote the idea that knowledge can be ascertained through reason. This is a masculine concept that hurts women's feelings and makes it difficult for them to succeed.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/22/are-stem-syllabi-gendered-a-feminist-pro
 
Courtesy of Stephen Novella's blog:



http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/science-is-not-colonialism/

Who's to blame, teachers in the 1980s who told students that their self esteem would be damaged if they failed their tests, told them that school was not for the purpose of education but rather to 'validate' the student...

Why the 80's - it is happening now - I teach a lot of University students and the amount of **** they come out with is truly baffling.

Here is Thunderf00t's take on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i80qaETtw8
 
Reading through this paper, though, I wondered just how influential this mode of thought has been. I suspect very. One thing I noticed as my son grew up was the extreme emphasis on "group work" in lots of classes, all the way into high school. Instead of traditional learning methods, the class would be split into groups, and each would give a presentation after a day or two of work.

I found it hideous. It resulted in a lot of what I ended up calling "art project assignments". Whether in literature, or science, or language classes, they were graded on their ability to make a presentation. These kinds of projects were especially prevalent in 5th through 8th grade, and it seemed that the whole teaching method was not very effective, and was very biased against boys. They just didn't have the social skills to do well in the groups, but the girls' work, which was better than the boys, was still mediocre. I never thought anyone left those classes actually understanding science.

It is critically important to identify whether this is an inherent and immutable quality of maleness or a result of socialization.
 
This passage is interesting:



I think what the author is saying is that competitive classes are generally viewed as unfriendly to women.

I'm not sure what to make of that. I think it might be true, but I'm not sure what difference it makes.

Yes, science course are hard for many people, and they are harder for some poople than for others, and many women might not like that. And?

That seems like a valid point to me. A person's grade should be based on how well they learn and understand the material, and not necessarily in comparison to how well their classmates learn it.

It also seems like a rather minor point.
 

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