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Science Denial

JSanderO

Illuminator
JSanderO
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,232
Location
nyc
Today we are witnessing science denial on steroids as it relates to the Covid pandemic. We have also witnessed the emerging influence of evangelical christian ideas which are clearly also anti science. After 9/11 science denial quickly appeared coming from the 9/11 truth "movement". In both instances the science deniers advance their own professionals and experts... who are lauded as "truth tellers".
It's hard for me to comprehend how intelligent educated people promote unscientific thinking. How can an engineer state that a collapse of the twin towers was impossible without CD? How can they even claim the collapse was at "free fall" or that free fall motion (or near FF) could ONLY mean that there was a CD that destroyed the columns?
A layman does not have the tools to understand a building collapse. They do understand that an explosion can destroyed integrity of a structure. It's not difficult to understand that the layman finds the explosive controlled demolition a good fit for a building collapse. After all.. Tall buildings ARE demolished with explosives and the collapse looks "close enough" to call it a match. For sure, if your observations are not informed my technical knowledge....your mind comes up with an explanation which satisfies them.
We have seen this in how ancient people explain the natural world.
Very few people have seen structural failures and they are extremely rare.
So it's understandable how laymen can be misled as well as misunderstand what they saw.
What is MORE troubling and to me inexplicable are those who ARE educated and CAN understand and refuse to... or reject reason. Witness David Chandler or Gage or McCoy and so on. Why are they deluded? And why are they promoting a false narrative?
 
For many, it's a fundamental distrust of government. In a post-Pentagon Papers world, it's a thing to not take anything endorsed by DC as straight dope.
 
Thermal said:
For many, it's a fundamental distrust of government. In a post-Pentagon Papers world, it's a thing to not take anything endorsed by DC as straight dope.
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Actually it's your basic Grifting the equivalent of the 19 century traveling medical show on the internet.
 
I think for Gage at least the grifter tag applies. Others seem to have an attention thing going on... being a "truther" celebrity. All of these people are denying the science which is available to anyone who seeks technical explanations.

I know Tony knows the arguments... He was a member of 911FF... Chandler? He seems to be hiding from those sites... and the truth. Maybe he makes money of his advocacy for 911truth???
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
Actually it's your basic Grifting the equivalent of the 19 century traveling medical show on the internet.
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I'm thinking of the very few deniers I know. Their basic reasoning is that if the govt (or even media) supports it, it can't possibly be true. Applies to vaccinations/lockdowns, climate change, even horrors like Sandy Hook.

Which I can sympathize with, to a point. Our government and media have a lousy track record for honesty.
 
Because if they can believe that there's an all-powerful "them" behind everything, they can believe that it isn't their fault they're a complete loser. It's drinking in the last chance saloon of their self-validation.
 
Good point. YES we rarely get the whole truth and the reason is things like "national security". YES we are subject to spin and PR, advertising all the time and no it's not the whole story... from gov, authorities including the government.
 
JSanderO said:
Good point. YES we rarely get the whole truth and the reason is things like "national security". YES we are subject to spin and PR, advertising all the time and no it's not the whole story... from gov, authorities including the government.
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We have Media Now thanks to Rupert Murdock, that tells lies that violate the very laws of physics and could not possibly be true.
 
Fox should not be allowed to peddle lies as they do.. Same for any media. That sounds like censorship... but the FCC license should proscribe lying... In fact this is dangerous because they call what they do news... people believe what they see and hear on Fox... It's dumbing down the citizens.
 
JSanderO said:
Fox should not be allowed to peddle lies as they do.. Same for any media. That sounds like censorship... but the FCC license should proscribe lying... In fact this is dangerous because they call what they do news... people believe what they see and hear on Fox... It's dumbing down the citizens.
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I have noticed, from CT-believing friends of mine, that they simultaneously castigate the 'MSM' for 'telling lies' and also strenuously object to fact-checking, and to any legal attempts to hold media outlets accountable to standards of factuality.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
I have noticed, from CT-believing friends of mine, that they simultaneously castigate the 'MSM' for 'telling lies' and also strenuously object to fact-checking, and to any legal attempts to hold media outlets accountable to standards of factuality.
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When Someone wishes to argue with established laws of physics as described by Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein in a way that is just dumb they deserve to be laughed at.
Yellow Journalism now is all we have.
 
I am curious about why people accept the sources of information which they do???? Is the average person incapable of recognizing that the AE911T is false and misleading? How are people who are educated and especially those with engineering backgrounds taken in?
 
JSanderO said:
I am curious about why people accept the sources of information which they do???? Is the average person incapable of recognizing that the AE911T is false and misleading? How are people who are educated and especially those with engineering backgrounds taken in?
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I think it's a screwball credibility distortion. If your starting assumption is that "the government lies and coerces others to lie, you might ascribe more credibility to what you perceive as an independent third party, ie AE911Truth. That they are in fact biased towards their own narrative might get by you, if they present themselves just neutrally enough. I think AE911 road that line fairly well, at least early on. Then they develop some credibility by their signatories, which appear to be a larger group than da gubmint.
 
JSanderO said:
I am curious about why people accept the sources of information which they do???? Is the average person incapable of recognizing that the AE911T is false and misleading? How are people who are educated and especially those with engineering backgrounds taken in?
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Every CT starts like this:

A big, sometimes tragic event happens.

City, State, and Federal Investigators go to work, but their process is RIGHTLY slow and methodical. So in the information vacuum CTists step forward with their own version of events.

Every CTist has a political agenda which overrides their education and rational thinking. They take the known facts of the big event and tie it together with parallel facts, some closely relevant, and some are a stretch. Their overall narrative is designed to frame their personal political/social bogeyman (the CIA, FEMA, Democrats, Communists, Nazis, and or Jews). While the intial CTs usually fall flat on their face, other CTists quickly build upon the parts that had social traction and run with their new, improved CT.

Every good CT starts with a foundation of basic facts:

A+B+C=D

Then they combine their CT with the facts by drawing on unrelated conspiracies of the past:

Watergate+Pinochet+the CIA of the 1950s & 60s etc.

So we get the logic of:

If Watergate happened then lizard people planted explosive charges in the elevator shafts of the Twin Towers and flew a missile disguised by a holgram into the Pentagon...all so they could use Nanothermite to destroy WTC-7 to hide CIA evidence of whatnot.

The trick is to get people nodding, so yes Watergate happened therefore we should keep an open mind. At some point people stop asking for evidence, something we had with Watergate, but even in the days, and weeks after 9-11 never existed. And being educated does not vaccinate one from going to Crazy Town, in fact it makes it worse:

giphy.gif


Just read through the old 911 threads on this board where intelligent people (much smarter than me) argued for CT. For some it's like a cat chasing a laser pointer around th house; they can't help themselves. And others like Tony Z just have a world-view that intellectually blinds them.

Just my .02 cents.
 
JSanderO said:
I am curious about why people accept the sources of information which they do???? Is the average person incapable of recognizing that the AE911T is false and misleading? How are people who are educated and especially those with engineering backgrounds taken in?
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People simply don't want to hear information that is counter to the model of the universe that they have built for themselves in their head. Many are programed by false information.
 
Everyone knows and accepts that "intel" deals in secrets, secrecy and seem to have power to do things the rest of us cannot. I think this allows CTists to accept that crazy things can be done... and be kept secret and cover stories are part of spycraft.

So we have the conditions of a "black op" shadow gov operation. The object would be to consolidate power and to control the political agenda... which post 9/11 seems to be a rush to war not a rush to arrest and try the people in the plot. Certainly lots of money in making war. And they got the Patriot Act approved which gave the people's rights a haircut. Hoe convenient!
 
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JSanderO said:
Everyone knows and accepts that "intel" deals in secrets, secrecy and seem to have power to do things the rest of us cannot. I think this allows CTists to accept that crazy things can be done... and be kept secret and cover stories are part of spycraft.

So we have the conditions of a "black op" shadow gov operation. The object would be to consolidate power and to control the political agenda... which post 9/11 seems to be a rush to war not a rush to arrest and try the people in the plot. Certainly lots of money in making war. And they got the Patriot Act approved which gave the people's rights a haircut. Hoe convenient!
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Yes but I just wish I was paid as much for my Shilling as they think I was, I could then pay off the national Debt and lower everyone's Taxes.
 
And all this is fed by the super credulous media, TV in particular, that provides infotainment rather than reason. When I read this thread, I thought, "I wonder what is happening on Oak Island?" It appears that in the eighth season they finally have proof of a Massive Treasure . . . no, wait, they have found a copper coin!



The comments are not exactly supportive. ;)

Any guesses how long the "History" channel can string the show out?
 
As ozeco41 would say most people can't seem to handle the burden of having to think about more than two, three factors of a given situation at once, much less how those factors may interact. I'm paraphrasing. But we can see this happen for any pet belief, opinion, speculation, etc. Conspiracist reasoning is an endless circle of "oh yeah, what about this?!..." "but this part here seems too weird, so I'm just gonna forget everything you just explained to me"
 
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