Saving Private Lynch - Fact and Fiction

a_unique_person

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a_unique_person
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2938589.stm

Saving Private Lynch 'film plan'


Private Jessica Lynch was reportedly rescued after a tip-off
The dramatic rescue of a US servicewoman held captive in Iraq is to be turned into a film by a US TV network, according to a report.
NBC is planning the movie about how Private Jessica Lynch, 19, was found by US special forces, Hollywood newspaper Variety said.

Private Lynch was being held in hospital in Nasiriya, southern Iraq, and suffered two broken legs, an injured arm and multiple gunshot wounds.
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" You see this sort of thing in spy movies and wonder if it's really true "

NBC source
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/3028585.stm

But Iraqi doctors in Nasiriya say they provided the best treatment they could for the soldier in the midst of war. She was assigned the only specialist bed in the hospital and one of only two nurses on the floor.

"I examined her, I saw she had a broken arm, a broken thigh and a dislocated ankle," said Dr Harith a-Houssona, who looked after her.

Jessica amnesia

"There was no [sign of] shooting, no bullet inside her body, no stab wound - only road traffic accident. They want to distort the picture. I don't know why they think there is some benefit in saying she has a bullet injury."

Witnesses told us that the special forces knew that the Iraqi military had fled a day before they swooped on the hospital.


Dr Uday was surprised by the manner of the rescue
"We were surprised. Why do this? There was no military, there were no soldiers in the hospital," said Dr Anmar Uday, who worked at the hospital.
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Two completely different stories, one of which will become historical "fact".

Lynch remembers nothing, apparently.
 
You believe this?

Were there blank adaptors on the US guns?

'Witnesses' appear to have deep insight into what the US forces believed:

Witnesses told us that the special forces knew that the Iraqi military had fled a day before they swooped on the hospital.
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This is BBC 'journalism'? Perhaps they should ask the US representatives for a response.

MattJ
 
aerocontrols said:
You believe this?

Were there blank adaptors on the US guns?

'Witnesses' appear to have deep insight into what the US forces believed:



This is BBC 'journalism'? Perhaps they should ask the US representatives for a response.

MattJ
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Even if we ignore the blanks as unproveable, and accept that, just in case, they went in armed as a matter prudence, the fact is that the story put out by the armed forces, and which will be put on film, will not be a bunch of soldiers turning up to an unguarded hospital, but a bunch soldiers turning up shooting guns, go go going and saving Lynch from the inhuman Iraqis.

They also made sure they had the film crew with them when they went in to get the dramatic footage for the media. Only, it was not quite as dramatic as it was portrayed.

The matter of the bullet wounds is also something that has never been resolved.
 
Who are these one-star bandits? Why do forum moderators even feature silly ratings?

The British press has taken quite a different (more skeptical?) veiw of the whole "Saving Private Lynch" narrative.

On BBC "journalism":

A funny thing happened during the Iraq war: many Americans turned to the BBC for their TV news. They were looking for an alternative point of view — something they couldn't find on domestic networks, which, in the words of the BBC's director general, "wrapped themselves in the American flag and substituted patriotism for impartiality."

Leave aside the rights and wrongs of the war itself, and consider the paradox. The BBC is owned by the British government, and one might have expected it to support that government's policies. In fact, however, it tried hard — too hard, its critics say — to stay impartial. America's TV networks are privately owned, yet they behaved like state-run media. -- Paul Krugman
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a_unique_person said:


Even if we ignore the blanks as unproveable,
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I don't think we should 'ignore' them. US military infantry weapons don't fire blanks without adapters, as the BBC would have learned had they felt inclined to ask any representative of the US military while writing this story.

They apparently didn't. Great journalism.

MattJ
 
Even if we ignore the blanks as unproveable,

...then there are still SO MANY unproveable assertions LEFT in the article!

And as we all know, if somebody makes LOTS of unprovable claim, that raises the chance that at least SOME of them are true!

That's why I became a scientologist: it can't be that ALL of what L. Ron Hubbard wrote is nonsense; what are the chances of that?
 
Skeptic said:
Even if we ignore the blanks as unproveable,

...then there are still SO MANY unproveable assertions LEFT in the article!

And as we all know, if somebody makes LOTS of unprovable claim, that raises the chance that at least SOME of them are true!

That's why I became a scientologist: it can't be that ALL of what L. Ron Hubbard wrote is nonsense; what are the chances of that?
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They have talked to staff at the hospital. You can either believe them or not. Either way, the spin put on the story was not what really happened.

Can you tell me if she was shot or not? I have read several conflicting claims about this. Was she tortured there? All reports seem to agree the hospital was unguarded.

And when will you be able to find the time to tell us some tales of your time as a bulldozer driver in the IDF?
 
Addressing the guards issue...

I'm not clear on how witnesses at the hospital would know whether or not the US forces knew about guards at the hospital prior to the raid. I'm sure the SF guys that ran the raid tried to find out that kind of information, but the most likely source would be an informant, who you can't trust fully. Either way, the hospital was not in friendly territory, so a very forceful, quick operation is the logical way to go.

As for the blanks, that sounds ridiculous. For one, why bother? The video has never been shown at any significant length or with sound as far as I know, so what's the point of shooting of blanks for drama if no one sees it? No clip I ever saw had any firing in it. Again, the hospital was in hostile territory - no one, (especially not Special Forces) is going to agree to go in without live ammo just for the cameras.
 
Nately said:

As for the blanks
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possibly they may have used stun grenades? These ar commonly used on entries where there may be civilians inside....? Just a thought.
 
aerocontrols said:


I don't think we should 'ignore' them. US military infantry weapons don't fire blanks without adapters, as the BBC would have learned had they felt inclined to ask any representative of the US military while writing this story.

They apparently didn't. Great journalism.

MattJ
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Hmmm. Just out of curiosity, but why doesn't US infantry rifles fire blanks without adapters, and what kind of adapters are those?
 
Well, I don't know a thing about the US weapons, but our (norwegian army) old muskets need what you might call blank adapters in order to fire fully automatic. Actually I allways heard them referred to as recoil amplifiers, as the recoil from firing a blank is too small to reload the gun. As an alternative to these funky coloured thingies, you can tape a holed coin to the barrel.
 
Leif Roar said:
Hmmm. Just out of curiosity, but why doesn't US infantry rifles fire blanks without adapters, and what kind of adapters are those?
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PogoPedant's reason is the US Military's reason. No bullet with a blank round means that the first round fired will not get ejected.

Blank ammunition, when fired in these three weapons, is not powerful enough to force the weapons mechanism through its full cycle of operations. Because there is no live projectile, the build up of gas in the barrel is much less. When the weapon fires, there is no way that the mechanism will re-cock and chamber a fresh round.

Fire a blank round, and the weapon will stop firing after the first round is expended.

This would clearly be a daft situation when training with blank ammunition, so for training situations, a blank firing attachment (BFA) is used. The BFA consists of a cumbersome mechanical device bolted on to the end of the barrel. This restricts the amount of gas escaping, giving the weapon mechanism enough power to re-cock and re-chamber.
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source

Here's a picture of the attachment.

The first link has some general commentary that is also interesting.

MattJ
 
aerocontrols said:


PogoPedant's reason is the US Military's reason. No bullet with a blank round means that the first round fired will not get ejected.
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Thank you.
 
The doctor's quote as reported in the Guardian is "It was like a Hollywood film. They cried, 'Go, go, go', with guns and blanks and the sound of explosions. They made a show - an action movie like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan, with jumping and shouting, breaking down doors." I'm not saying it is likely, but it is possible to interpret the quote as referring to the movies and not to the actual raid - especially considering that we don't have the quote in the original language.
Nonetheless, this witness may not be reliable enough by himself, to call into question the official version of events.

Similarly, a different doctor's account of the pre-rescue activities is also unconfirmed - again, from the guardian: " Two days before the snatch squad arrived, Al-Houssona had arranged to deliver Jessica to the Americans in an ambulance. 'I told her I will try and help you escape to the American Army but I will do this very secretly because I could lose my life.' He put her in an ambulance and instructed the driver to go to the American checkpoint. When he was approaching it, the Americans opened fire. They fled just in time back to the hospital." Even if true, it is doubtful that the incident would make it into the TV movie because it will be so difficult to make the audience understand why American soldiers would have turned away an ambulance. Yes, it was appropriate given the state of events at the time, but accurately portraying that state of events might be difficult for TV producers.

Other critics of the military's coverage of the events claim that the Pentagon originally said that Lynch was shot and stabbed, but more recent reports indicate that there are no bullet or knife wounds. I searched but could not find any confirmation that the military made the bullet and knife claim.
 
LOL at Delta Force guys using blanks in a raid! You've got to be kidding me that any legit news agency would report that. Hahaha! The Brits are just acting prissy because our guys did most of the high-profile asskicking in this war.

:rolleyes:
 
Genghis Pwn said:
LOL at Delta Force guys using blanks in a raid! You've got to be kidding me that any legit news agency would report that. Hahaha! The Brits are just acting prissy because our guys did most of the high-profile asskicking in this war.

:rolleyes:
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The BBC didn't report that - they quoted someone who claimed that. There is a major journalistic difference between the two.
 
Leif Roar said:


The BBC didn't report that - they quoted someone who claimed that. There is a major journalistic difference between the two.
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This is a checkable fact.

They didn't check.

I thought journalists were supposed to verify the claims of witnesses.
 
aerocontrols said:


This is a checkable fact.

They didn't check.

I thought journalists were supposed to verify the claims of witnesses.
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But wether or not the US Forces used blanks isn't a substantial fact of the article, and since the witness in question wasn't in any way portrayed as an expert witness I don't see that it's bad journalism of BBC to let his comment stand as it is.
 
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