Santa Claus - Reinforcing the Lie?

RobRoy

Not A Mormon
RobRoy
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Last September, my wife and I welcomed our first child into this world. He's a biasedly beautiful bouncing baby boy. Now that he's starting to go through some of the more major developmental stages I've been pondering the question of Santa Claus. That is, the question of do I lie to my son (and any future children) and reinforce the myth of Santa Claus as the jolly giver of gifts and the bowl full of jelly bringer of joy, or do I shuck all that for the winter's cold truth?

There are a great many folk whose opinions I respect on these forums, and I would appreciate your input on this subject.
 
There are two approaches and both have merits.

#1: Yes, Santa Claus is real. He is a magical person, who loves everyone so much he died for their sins. But so great was his love that he came back from the grave to visit everybody once a year and give them presents. Santa is very real. He is very powerful. And he is unstoppable--not even death itself could hold him back. Accept his gifts. Accept his visits. You don't want to offend an immortal undead magical man who can stealthily break-and-enter any dwelling at will in the dead of the night, do you? Do you?! So. You'd. Better. Eat. Your. Peas. Timmy.

#2: Santa Claus is a cute story, a myth that has become part of our rich holiday traditions. He's not real, but it's fun to play along. The fun of Santa distracts people from the true horror of Cthulhu, who stirs during winter solstice when the strange stars align and blasphemous shadows stir among Cyclopean architecture with non-Euclidean geometry in the abyssal night at the bottom of the sea. So let's pretend that's reindeer, flying reindeer --how cute! we hear tapping on the roof. Reindeer that are jolly, and have skin, and are warm to the touch. No tentacles or rotting flesh there, no sirree. And Santa's a jolly fat man with absolutely no clawed tentacles. The red glow is Rudolph's nose, not a single malevolent eye burning with unfathomable hatred born on distant Yuggoth. Ai! Ai! Cthulhu fhtagn! It's Xmas, kiddies! Try not to think about it.
 
I don't have any kids, but have some friends who handled this in what I thought was a very admirable fashion. They love reading stories to their kids that have obviously fictional characters -- talking animals, wizards, etc. The kids know that these aren't real, but still love reading about them, talking about them, etc.

So, they treat Santa Claus in the same way. He's just another story. They go to the shopping mall and their kids sit on Santa's knee, telling him what they want for Christmas. On Christmas Day, they will find presents from Santa under the tree, and stockings filled with goodies from Santa.

It is a game, a fantasy, that the whole family plays together. The kids know that Santa is not real, there is no lying or anything like that. But not wanting to lie to your kids about Santa doesn't mean that you have to remove Santa from the Christmas experience.
 
TragicMonkey said:
There are two approaches and both have merits.

#1: Yes, Santa Claus is real. He is a magical person, who loves everyone so much he died for their sins. But so great was his love that he came back from the grave to visit everybody once a year and give them presents. Santa is very real. He is very powerful. And he is unstoppable--not even death itself could hold him back. Accept his gifts. Accept his visits. You don't want to offend an immortal undead magical man who can stealthily break-and-enter any dwelling at will in the dead of the night, do you? Do you?! So. You'd. Better. Eat. Your. Peas. Timmy.

#2: Santa Claus is a cute story, a myth that has become part of our rich holiday traditions. He's not real, but it's fun to play along. The fun of Santa distracts people from the true horror of Cthulhu, who stirs during winter solstice when the strange stars align and blasphemous shadows stir among Cyclopean architecture with non-Euclidean geometry in the abyssal night at the bottom of the sea. So let's pretend that's reindeer, flying reindeer --how cute! we hear tapping on the roof. Reindeer that are jolly, and have skin, and are warm to the touch. No tentacles or rotting flesh there, no sirree. And Santa's a jolly fat man with absolutely no clawed tentacles. The red glow is Rudolph's nose, not a single malevolent eye burning with unfathomable hatred born on distant Yuggoth. Ai! Ai! Cthulhu fhtagn! It's Xmas, kiddies! Try not to think about it.
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Nom'd.

My ancient answer that I still endorse. Even if it isn't as good as Monkey's.

ETA: And much congrats, to both of you. It's going to be a wild ride.
 
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I'm a fan of the "Yes, Virginia" approach to the point that I several times considered having Francis Pharcellus Church as my Christmas avatar. :)

It's not about the existence of an actual supernatural being living on the North Pole. It's about the idea of Santa Claus, the concept, the myth and the spirit. I recognized my grandfather in a fake beard when I was about three years old, but I have never said and would never say "There is no Santa Claus." I enjoyed Santa Claus then on the same terms as I do now (although the sitting in the lap had to go at some point :D) and I see no conflict between reinforcing the myth and being honest.

That's right, I'm a hardline Santa Claus apologist. So sue me. :p
 
I don't have any kids either, but I was a kid once. I used to believe in Santa Claus, and then I didn't. I turned out fine, in fact, I am glad I had all those years of believing in him, and was able to get it out of my system for when I grew up and put away all those childish ideas.

Do you really see it as lying to your children? Don't do it then, if that bothers you. I am sure they will still enjoy the holidays without that aspect.
 
Don't tell kids stuff like, "if you don't believe, you won't get presents"-- that's a weird message. It's illogical. If Santa is real, he (like his invisible sky counterpart) can read your mind and "know" if you believe. If you don't believe, you can fake like you do--but how do you fool a mind reader... and how crazy are you willing to drive yourself trying not to think of the whole conundrum of it all so you don't risk "unbelieving" by accident and leaving yourself bereft of goodies?
 
articulett said:
Don't tell kids stuff like, "if you don't believe, you won't get presents"-- that's a weird message. It's illogical. If Santa is real, he (like his invisible sky counterpart) can read your mind and "know" if you believe. If you don't believe, you can fake like you do--but how do you fool a mind reader... and how crazy are you willing to drive yourself trying not to think of the whole conundrum of it all so you don't risk "unbelieving" by accident and leaving yourself bereft of goodies?
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Honestly, I've never met anyone else ever- theist or atheist or apathist- that takes this stuff as literally and as seriously as you do. You keep babbling on about the "Courtier's reply"- well that's it, right there, in what you said.

And for f[rule X]'s sake, do you have to preach your dogma in every single thread that even alludes to someone believing something? I suppose next comes an emotional rant about how you never liked the deparment store elves as much as you liked the snotty brat that used to get off on telling the younger kids there is no Santa.

We've all heard what little you have to say on the subject, give it a rest.
 
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If, after the communists take over, I somehow end up with kids, I will be sure to tell them the truth about Santa Claus. I will then encourage them to lord their special knowledge over their uneducated peers and teach them how to introduce proper sarcasm in their conversations.
 
They will anyhow... if they're like my kid. It's not "lording knowledge"-- it's sharing a big secret that the grown ups (the enemy) are telling the kids (the allies).

And all their parents will be mad at you for ruining a story you didn't want to proffer in the first place.
 
I agree with Wolfman, treat it like a story. I figured it out when I was 3 or 4 and dad told me it was a fun story/game and not to ruin it for everyone else.
 
I told my kid not to spoil it for others... now that he figured it out, he got to be "santa" for others, etc. But like me, he considered it too juicy of a truth tidbit to keep to himself-- and he wanted no part of the pretense towards others. It felt like a "lie" to him. And I felt the same way as a kid. I didn't even tell my kid about Santa... I just let him absorb the myth from others and went along the best I could and was vague when he started asking questions. e.g."do you really think that I'm santa?-- do you really think I have the stamina to go running around on Christmas eve giving presents to all the little boys and girls of the world?" I even bought him a toy gun as "Santa" which his mom (me) didn't want him to have (so he asked Santa to get around the mom loophole). grrr.
 
Piscivore said:
My ancient answer that I still endorse. Even if it isn't as good as Monkey's.
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That's awesome. Mrs. Upchurch and I are expecting our firstborn in October. We're enjoying the thread.

We have The Autobiography of Santa Claus on CD. It is an interesting mix of actual historical events and mythical story telling. We try to play it once every Christmas and plan on keeping up the tradition when the kid comes.
 
RobRoy said:
I've been pondering the question of Santa Claus.
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Here's my answer:

There's really only one time in your life when it is acceptable to really belive in magic. Adults may be required to know what is real from what is unreal, even while professing a belief in fantasy. Children, though, really can believe in a magical world where anything is possible. Soon enough, they won't be able to anymore.

So, if you enjoyed your childhood and if you remember the feeling of finding presents under that tree, I see no reason why you should deny your child that same experience. It is possible, after all, to have believed in Santa and to still be a fine critical thinker.

Let your new child experience just a little bit of wonder while he still can.
 
Unless you're a single parent and are miffed that a non existent entity will be getting credit for your hard work.
 
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