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Sami Yli-Karjanmaa? [missile into Pentagon]

Panoply_Prefect

Graduate Poster
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
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Location
Sweden
Hi!

[Again, I tried search...] Has anyone here seen anyone, apart from the truthers, commenting on the homepage of a guy called Sami Yli-Karjanmaa?
Hes as I understand it a firm "missile into Pentagon"-believer and at the link above you'll find his "Article on The Pentagon Building Performance Report ".

Cheers,
SLOB
 
Hi!

[Again, I tried search...] Has anyone here seen anyone, apart from the truthers, commenting on the homepage of a guy called Sami Yli-Karjanmaa?
Hes as I understand it a firm "missile into Pentagon"-believer and at the link above you'll find his "Article on The Pentagon Building Performance Report ".

Cheers,
SLOB

Final Conclusion - His 9 conclusions are debunked already! His final conclusion is debunked by witnesses, radar data, dna, FDR, and flight 77.

Nut cases with no facts to support nut case ideas.

I have not see anyone yet mention him or his shallow research.
 
Thnx, and yepp I know most, if not all, of it is old stuff. I can look most of it up, and if I get the time I will, but I was hoping someone already compiled a rebutal. Thing is Im active in a 800 pages+ thread about 911 and discussions mostly go something like this:

Truther posts a claim (Fireman blows whistle on 911 conspiracy - FDNY was in on it and so was NYPD. Also as a fireman he knows a fire could not bring down WTC7 as claimed)

I start looking up fireman (never take claims at face value)

Truther moves on with new claim. And new claim, and new claim - skipping from stone to stone without ever pausing to finish.

I have problem keeping pace and looks around to see if someone else already done the work.

I'll go thru his page slowly as soon as I get the time... meanwhile someone, who earlier claimed that Bush did it to be allowed attack Iraq, to get NWO into power, to support Israel somehow, now claims that it is an insurance fraud to avoid having to renovate the towers and get all the asbestos out of it...)


Cheers,
SLOB
 
what would be really nice would be to have a collection of pre-written rebuttals. One could then simply pick the arguments that idiot X is making, and out pop the premade answers. Compile them for idiot X, and you would have an instant rebuttal...a one can dream...lol

TAM
 
care to list those claims of his that debunk the PHYSICAL evidence that it was a plane, and not a missile?
 
Ohh... this is a walk down memory lane! And I see that Sami has in fact expanded his, then, one 911-page into an entire site!

(Sami apparently is a finnish "support person for networked education at the theological institution of the virtual university of Finland":

http://www.virtuaaliyliopisto.fi/vy_svy_tiedote_0505_sve.asp )

The Finnish Virtual University (FVU) is a partnership of all 21 Finnish universities. It supports and develops collaboration among universities in the utilization of information and communication technologies (ICTs) in teaching and studying. As a Consortium it develops information network -based training and educational services for the shared use of its member universities.
It is not an online or distance education university and does not provide university education. For online or distance education studies you have to enroll in one of the FVU member universities.
 
arus said:
care to list those claims of his that debunk the PHYSICAL evidence that it was a plane, and not a missile?
Nope. I can't make a decision on the validity of his website before I see the claimed debunking sources. If you know any, will you please list them? Thanks.
 
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Okay here's nine somethings listed at the site as it stands now, which again, is this.

the aircraft's reported 42º approach angle is not possible for a B-757;
Everyone knows a big plane like that can't hit something at that angle! Just kidding, he means the damage don't line up with a 757. Partial debunk:
NEIT749_flight_path.jpg

This is false. It all lines up well -wingtip to wingtip, except maybe the gouge in the top of the generator seems a bit off. and I challenge you to show otherwise.

the aircraft's right wing's hitting a generator cannot account for the narrowness and discontinuity of the damage to the facade as proposed by the Report;
Debunk

the intact cable spools in the trajectory of the aircaft are incompatible with the information on the impact contained in the Report
Nope. Two were tipped and distorted, which fits the impact altitude the real plane was at. The others were further back and passed over untouched and stayed put or rolled a bit on wake.

there is no evidence to support the claim of the left engine having hit a vent structure; such a hit would also not explain the narrowness of the damage to the facade.
Debunk on vent damage - see photo at top, lower left damage area in the concrete enclosure. A nice line where the engine would be, at ground level.
Wing damage debunk - same as for the right - outer wings don't break through, the wing imprint does not represent the whole wing. If we tie eight foot peacock feathers to each wingtip, should the hole be 16 feet winder? Same concept, dude.

the allegation of the aircraft's fuselage sliding into the first floor has no physical credibility;
Like hell it doesn't. 2nd floor slab damaged at impact for several feet in - something too big to fit obviously hit there, intact at first. After this the fuselage got smaller, as is obvious. The top didn't go in. it's all over the lawn, remember? Bottom 2/3 of the fuselage wouldn't fit inside? Please don't try arguing this.

the facade damage on the right side of the opening in the outer wall does not correspond to the shape, size and reported position of the alleged B-757;
I already covered this, point 2.

the facade damage on the left side of the opening are not suggestive of the proposed impact of a B-757
Covered.

the tail of the aircraft left no visible marks on the facade while the Report in no way explains this
Allow me then - the plane didn't fly in backward but nose first. By the time the "tailfin hit" it wasn't attached to a plane anymore. It probably NEVER hit the wall, at least not upright, in one piece, or with any real force.

the Report fails to provide any kind of explanation for the hole in the wall of Ring C.
True. They weren't even allowed to inpest it. It might have something to with the giant plane that they documented penetrating about that deep into the building on just that path. Who knows, eh?

Is that it? Oh...
 
Who provided that overlay of the outline of the aircraft against the facade? It looks to me too far to the left. With the location of the generator, I would say that the egine (which was probaby what hit the generator, should have hit roughly near column 18, perhaps very little to the left. This would account for the depth of the impact damage to the facade, because the wing would still be quite rigid just outboard of the engine.

Why are the sopools shown lying down? Seems to me that in pre-crash photos they seem to be standing up on end.

All these quibbles are, of course, utterly secondary to the fact that the damage is totally inconsistant with impact by any known missile.

There are a lot of internet whackadoodles posting some incredibly daft stuff about 9/11 from Finland?

Has it something to do with the long dark nights or maybe the vodka?
 
Thanks for the debunking attempt, Caustic Logic. Before I comment on it, I have one question for the Jrefers:
Is this (Caustic Logic's post) pretty much what you meant when you said "His nine conclusions have been debunked already" and if not, can you post a link to the debunking you were thinking of?
 
Can you list a source that debunks each point? Thanks.
You lack evidence to support the lies and fantasy. Too bad for you.

Any rational person can debunk it. Take a hack at it@!\

Here is what you can do, pick one of the points he makes and present it backed up with facts and evidence. Gee, if the guy was right I would have take his work and got a Pulitzer Prize when he posted it! I would be famous! But his junk is pure fantasy and lies.

Do you know anyone who lacks enough knowledge to fall for this tripe?

And of course we have people who saw a 757, Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."
Even found DNA from the passengers in the Pentagon and the people who lost loved ones on 77 would love to know you are so disrespectful to support lies without evidence. Are you not a great person? If only you applied the time you spend on your paranoia fantasy ideas to studying the required skills to understand 9/11.

Then we have people who lack knowledge on 9/11, and they can't figure out this give 6 plus years. How sad to see the failure of education in a few fringe 9/11 truthers. If only you could debunk the liars.
 
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Can you list a source that debunks each point? Thanks.


Hey, glad that you could stop running for a moment. Let's get back to those survivors of the Titanic disaster: some of them thought the ship went straight down, while others insisted that it broke in half. Rationalists understand that eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable for details. These people experienced the sinking of a purportedly "unsinkable" ship. While they unquestionably remembered the big picture, the actual sinking, everything else was fuzzy (there were conflicting reports on what the orchestra was playing as the lifeboats were lowered into the sea).

Now, we keep pointing out that the frauds of the CIT are wasting everyone's time by ignoring all of the eyewitnesses who contradict the baseless fantasy of a Pentagon flyover and focusing on a handful who allegedly describe an impossible flight path. You have been asked repeatedly about the inconsistencies in the narratives of Titantic survivors, but you are reluctant to confront the issue here. Always you babble some nonsense and take to your heels. Isn't it time to acknowledge that the frauds and fools of the CIT are going nowhere with their clumsy deception?

Wait! You're running away again! Please--answer the question! Slow down! Don't go!
 
Beachnut said:
You lack evidence to support the lies and fantasy. Too bad for you.

Any rational person can debunk it. Take a hack at it@!\

Here is what you can do, pick one of the points he makes and present it backed up with facts and evidence. Gee, if the guy was right I would have take his work and got a Pulitzer Prize when he posted it! I would be famous! But his junk is pure fantasy and lies.

Do you know anyone who lacks enough knowledge to fall for this tripe?

And of course we have people who saw a 757, Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
Great job of letting your self-importance get in the way. Apparently you interpreted my rather straightforward question as an attack on your credibility. As I have already said, I am not supporting Sami before I see the 'debunking' arguments, so can you please answer the question since your the one who claimed each point was debunked?
 
Berachnut covered it all. Sami covered what the voices in his ears told him.

He fails to show anything to contradict the official narrative. He does not show us how a missile could have done it.

Sami is a loser.
 
leftyseargent said:
Berachnut covered it all.
Beachnut didn't post anything about Sami's 9 points. Did you mean Caustic Logic? If you didn't see it, my post 12 said:
TheLoneBedouin said:
Thanks for the debunking attempt, Caustic Logic. Before I comment on it, I have one question for the Jrefers:
Is this (Caustic Logic's post) pretty much what you meant when you said "His nine conclusions have been debunked already" and if not, can you post a link to the debunking you were thinking of?
 
My bad. It was Caustic.

Long and short of it is that Sami is out to lunch, because what he notes is even less consistant with a missile strike.

And his overlays have the plane hitting too far to the left.
 
Caustic might not have seen the thread in which we disusssed the imprint of the vertical stabilizer to the left of column 13 (as best I recall) that sort of resembled the mark that the vertical stabilizer of the Betty that hit the Hinsdale left.
 

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