Same Shiite, Different Day, Baghdad Edition

[Darth Rotor]

This same sentiment has not really changed in kind, merely in degree, since Saddam left Baghdad.

Outside the tan, high-walled house, Shiite militiamen stood guard. Inside, men sat on a red carpet, their backs against a wall adorned with images of Shiite saints, their anger rising with each sentence. Hashim Naseer, a tribal leader, remembered how Iraqi soldiers arrested his brother early this month at a nearby park along with other Shiite fighters of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army.

"We thought this government was for Shiites, but now they have become worse than Saddam Hussein's regime," said Naseer, 40. "We placed much faith in the Iraqi security forces, but they are taking advantage of us."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/22/AR2008102203194.html

Tribal warfare, same as it ever was.

The article goes on to cover various topics and issues, to include how important Sadr's cease fire order has been to the Surge working as well as it has up to this point. Whether or not Sadr can, in the long run, arrest that sentiment remains to be seen. If he can, he'll be worth considering for a peace prize of some sort.

I don't think he can.

Too many players in the game. I think he's doing what he should have done back in 2003 and 2004: biding his time and waiting for the US to leave, to be replaced by the usual useless UN presence. (See other articles if you like on the deal US and Iraq are or are not crafting about status of US forces. No deal and we leave. )

And so, ladies and gentlemen, I offer for your consideration my submission for the one million dollars Mr Randi provides to those who are seers, and such.

There will be no deal reached.

The US will leave, probably out before 2010 is over, albeit with some token UN participation after the brigades execute retrograde movement to Kuwait and leave for good, heading to the US.

By 2011, Sadr will be back to doing what he does so well, fighting against the other factions in Iraq, and getting lots of press coverage for doing so. I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the people in Iraq who are good and damned tired of their civil war.

I think Senator Obama is going to win, and I think he means to get us out -- he has said as much -- and I don't think he's fool enough to sign up to an idiot's SOF agreement. So the troops will, in the large part, be home sooner rather than later.

And Obama will "let 'em play" in Iraq until re realizes that it's getting downright nasty in there.

When he turns to Congress to send the troops back in should things go as I expect them to go -- this is what he has stated he'd do -- he'll be met with blank stares, from both parties in Congress.

And the blood will turn the Euphrates red.

DR

 

[Beerina]

Hmmm. Maybe the US should have just jammed a full, freedom-based, secular constitution down the throats of the Iraqis and Afghanis, rather than having them build their own, the PC way to do it.

'Cause, see, if they don't do it themselves, they'll have a tough time accepting it, and this could lead to difficulties. :rolleyes

I'm glad Afghanistan decided not to execute that guy for converting, after all, and merely gave him a 20 year sentence.

 

[I Ratant]

The invocation of the facade of installing democracy trotted out when WMD's turned into lies as justification for the criminal invasion of Iraq shows the criminals in the Bush administration had no inkling of the history of that region, nor the avoidance of anything approaching self-government in the world of Islam.
Until the imams and mullahs give up their strangle-hold on the minds of the people, inter-tribal/inter-sect warfare is the normal state of affairs.
That's what they want, and that's what they are going to get back to.
We've killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of our own citizens for nothing but criminal greed, and have accomplished nothing that will last to anyone's benefit (other than the rich and powerful) in the area.

 

[moon1969]

So you claim that Chechnya under Ramzan Kadyrov is any better than Iraq? Or what about Ingushetia? Dagestan maybe is not that bad but Ingushetia and Chechnya are.

 

[jj]

Tribal warfare, same as it ever was.

as it was in the beginning
it is now and every shall be
war without end
jihad, jihad!

(*** sigh there is no 'win' to this one ***)

 

[egslim]

Hmmm. Maybe the US should have just jammed a full, freedom-based, secular constitution down the throats of the Iraqis and Afghanis, rather than having them build their own, the PC way to do it.

The only way the US could have pulled that off is by being willing to systematically kill off as many Iraqis as it takes.

Because the only way to forcibly jam anything down people's throats is if you reduce their options to either death or surrender.

And since most US people like to think of themselves as the good guys, they don't have the stomach for that.

 

[tomwaits]

So you claim that Chechnya under Ramzan Kadyrov is any better than Iraq? Or what about Ingushetia? Dagestan maybe is not that bad but Ingushetia and Chechnya are.

No one made any claim about Chechnya. In fact, this thread is about a completely different topic.

 

[Wildy]

Hmmm. Maybe the US should have just jammed a full, freedom-based, secular constitution down the throats of the Iraqis and Afghanis, rather than having them build their own, the PC way to do it.

Then at least in the case of Iraq, they should have kept the old constitution. Apparently it was far more secular then the new one.