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Saddam shaking hands with Rumsfield

Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
620
If this Donald Rumsfield has any ounce of conscience about Saddam Hussein using WMD then here is a picture on him on the Dec 20 1983 shaking hands with Saddam Hussein the same year Saddam used gas on in Iran for the first time.
 
Don't you think that the CIA and later the the Reagan administration and created this monster in Baghdad in the first place and the chickens are just coming home to roost?
 
crocodile deathroll said:
Don't you think that the CIA and later the the Reagan administration and created this monster in Baghdad in the first place and the chickens are just coming home to roost?

Basically everybody on this forum agrees that it wasn't one of the US finest moves (possibly even JK). It has been discussed, used as argument, acusation and insult in every thinkable way. So don' t start beating a dead horse is all I'm saying.

Heck, before I get too deep into defending the US, I'll just drop this thread now :D

Zee
 
crocodile deathroll said:
Don't you think that the CIA and later the the Reagan administration and created this monster in Baghdad in the first place and the chickens are just coming home to roost?

Nope. Saddam rose to power though his own devices. (For the most part he had any potential rivals killed.) You cannot say that the U.S. put him in charge, or 'created' this monster.

The U.S. supported Saddam during its war with Iran. Was it a good idea? You need context here... Iran had just become a fundamentalist state. The U.S. was smarting over the hostage situation (you do remember that, don't you?) and were worried about Iranian fundamentalism taking over Iraq and other countries in the middle east. Based with bad possibilities, you take the lesser of 2 evils. (Who would you have supported?)

It should also be known that in terms of arms sold to Iraq, the U.S. lags far behind Russia, France, etc. (In fact, I believe Denmark sold more weapons to Iraq than the U.S.) So much for all the 'help' the U.S. gave to Iraq.

Please, get your basic facts straight.
 
I am glad you posted this oldie, but goodie. I was thinking about this the other day after reading Newsweek here. There was a picture of Chirac meeting with Saddam sometime in the 70s (was he Mayor of Paris at the time?). Anyway, the way the picture was positioned in the story and captioned, was sort of this off-handed slap at the French...sort of a "see, they've been freindly with the Devil for a long time..." kind of thing.

I thought that there was a picture of Rumsfeld with Saddam ... I also think there is a picture (s) of Cheney and possibly Bush Sr. meeting with Saddam back in the 80s or so, and when they were senior officials in the government. My point is, there is enough sitting and smiling with the Devil to go around in this situation...Saddam exists because people in the west -- from the US, to France, to Russia found it convient and wanted him to fight the global proxy wars.
 
We met with Saddam only two years after the hostage crisis in Iran? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Yes, the CIA installed Hussein, and Chairman Mao, and I think they are behind my property taxes going up this year. And if I'm not mistaken, they ran over my cat when I was a kid. I wouldn't be surprised if they were responsible for Planet X, and are the "anonymous donor" who gave Randi the million dollars for his Challenge.
 
LukeT said:
We met with Saddam only two years after the hostage crisis in Iran? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Yes, the CIA installed Hussein, and Chairman Mao, and I think they are behind my property taxes going up this year. And if I'm not mistaken, they ran over my cat when I was a kid. I wouldn't be surprised if they were responsible for Planet X, and are the "anonymous donor" who gave Randi the million dollars for his Challenge.

Indeed, anyone who thinks Saddam is a creature of the CIA, has little knowledge of how he murdered, tortured and conived his way to the top of the Baath party.

I am always impressed with the conspiracy theories about the CIA. I so often see them as bunglers (e.g. trying to make Castro's beard fall out...), yet the conspiracy nuts seem to have these two seemingly contradictory notions of the CIA...

a). The CIA is behind everything/one that is bad -- Saddam, etc.

b). Yet, in spite of the seemingly immence power of the CIA to place and control the world's bad leaders, somehow these guys seem to be able to break away and do things that the CIA can't control -- e.g. invade Kuwait, etc.

I think that Saddam has had dealings with the CIA, just as he has had dealings with the KGB and its successor organizations. Saddam used and fooled many people, states and organizations on his way to the top -- some were, of course, willingly fooled because they wanted to believe they could control him. In the end, he controlled the situation and they never did. It is hubris and ignorance we are paying for with this war, not a thought out strategy or vast conspiracy.
 
headscratcher4 said:


Indeed, anyone who thinks Saddam is a creature of the CIA, has little knowledge of how he murdered, tortured and conived his way to the top of the Baath party.

I am always impressed with the conspiracy theories about the CIA. I so often see them as bunglers (e.g. trying to make Castro's beard fall out...), yet the conspiracy nuts seem to have these two seemingly contradictory notions of the CIA...

a). The CIA is behind everything/one that is bad -- Saddam, etc.

b). Yet, in spite of the seemingly immence power of the CIA to place and control the world's bad leaders, somehow these guys seem to be able to break away and do things that the CIA can't control -- e.g. invade Kuwait, etc.

I think that Saddam has had dealings with the CIA, just as he has had dealings with the KGB and its successor organizations. Saddam used and fooled many people, states and organizations on his way to the top -- some were, of course, willingly fooled because they wanted to believe they could control him. In the end, he controlled the situation and they never did. It is hubris and ignorance we are paying for with this war, not a thought out strategy or vast conspiracy.

America has a far more sinister motive that Saddam and his WMD ever dreamt of if you check out this website newamericancentury.org
 
LukeT said:
We met with Saddam only two years after the hostage crisis in Iran? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Yes, the CIA installed Hussein, and Chairman Mao, and I think they are behind my property taxes going up this year. And if I'm not mistaken, they ran over my cat when I was a kid. I wouldn't be surprised if they were responsible for Planet X, and are the "anonymous donor" who gave Randi the million dollars for his Challenge.

Not I am not say they installed Saddam but they created the monster in Saddam
The monster in Saddam was amplified by America's paranoia about the Ayatollah Khomeini and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism especially after the hostage crisis and as a consequence of that America chose to support Saddam both with military intelligence and politically because they felt he was the lesser of the two evils and they did not want Ayatollah Khomeini to win the war. Hence that famous handshake by Donald Rumsfeld
 
crocodile deathroll said:


Not I am not say they installed Saddam but they created the monster in Saddam
The monster in Saddam was amplified by America's paranoia about the Ayatollah Khomeini and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism especially after the hostage crisis and as a consequence of that America chose to support Saddam both with military intelligence and politically because they felt he was the lesser of the two evils and they did not want Ayatollah Khomeini to win the war. Hence that famous handshake by Donald Rumsfeld

Created the monster in Saddam? Hold on a minute... USA helped Iraq in a war against Iran, but thats it. Iraq and Iran were bitter enemies that were fighting regardless of USA actions, it was just a type of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that was quite rampant in the cold war era.
 
crocodile deathroll said:
If this Donald Rumsfield has any ounce of conscience about Saddam Hussein using WMD then here is a picture on him on the Dec 20 1983 shaking hands with Saddam Hussein the same year Saddam used gas on in Iran for the first time.

I once met and shook hands with the guy that ended up boning my ex-wife 8 months later when I was sent overseas. Does that mean I was telling the guy to bone her at the time?
 
OUR FRIEND SADDAM, America

America already knew Saddam was an extremely brutal dictator right from the start.

Here is an extact from another article I found with an image of that infamous handshake.
Just seems to me like the colds war chickens are comiing home to roost

As far back as the Carter administration in 1979, American intelligence and foreign policy officials had identified Iraq’s potential to be a major source of destabilization in the world’s most important energy-producing region. Israel, fearing (correctly, as it happens) that Iraq was attempting to build a nuclear weapon, launched a pre-emptive strike in 1981 on the nuclear breeder reactor in Tuwaitha, Iraq. The International Atomic Energy Agency later determined that Iraqi teams salvaged bomb-grade uranium from the wreckage.

OUR FRIEND SADDAM





Despite all this, for a variety of reasons — some related to oil, some related to the Cold War, others still difficult to fathom — the Reagan administration in 1982 decided that it needed Iraq’s dictatorial regime as an ally. Saddam, while brutal and possibly maniacal in Washington’s calculations, at least had not allied himself with the Soviet Union. More importantly, he was engaged in a bloody slugfest with neighboring Iran, a former American ally whose own dictatorial ruler, the shah, had been overthrown just three years earlier by an Islamic revolution which — like the Bolshevik one earlier in the century — had pledged to spread its ideology through violent upheavals throughout the world. Alarmed, the United States backed Iraq in its war with Iran, providing intelligence help and diplomatic support. Washington even turned the other cheek in 1987 when an Iraqi attack plane targeting Iranian oil tankers instead sent an Exocet missile slamming into an American destroyer, USS Stark, killing 37 American sailors.
At the same time, the Reagan administration, seeking to avoid the kind of oil shocks that rocked the American economy in the 1970s, was cementing its ties to Saudi Arabia, controversially selling the kingdom AWACs early-warning aircraft and F-15 warplanes. These two pillars of new American policy in the Persian Gulf region would soon come crashing down when Iraq invaded Kuwait on Aug. 2, 1990.

 
Some get so defensive about admitting mistakes and learning from them.
Not everyone is saying to try Bush et al as war criminals, its just that if we don't remember history, well, you know...
 

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