Russia promotes neo-Nazis

Mycroft

High Priest of Ed
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The saga then took an even stranger turn: Hungarian intelligence officials told a parliamentary security committee in Budapest that Mr. Gyorkos had for years been under scrutiny for his role in a network of fringe extremists linked to and encouraged by Russia. So close was the relationship, the committee heard, that Russian military intelligence officers, masquerading as diplomats, staged regular mock combat exercises using plastic guns with neo-Nazi activists near Mr. Gyorkos’s home.

<snip>

But Andras Racz, a Russia expert at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs, said it fit into a scatter-gun strategy of placing small bets, directly or through proxies, on ready-made fringe groups in an effort to destabilize or simply disorient the European Union.

Most of these bets fail, but reaching out to those on the margins costs little and sometimes hits pay dirt. That happened with Jobbik, a once-marginal far-right Hungarian group that is now the country’s leading opposition party — and a big fan of President Vladimir V. Putin, as is Hungary’s prime minister, Victor Orban.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...t-soldiers-from-the-fringe/ar-BBxwbyA#image=5

A complex game of deception apparently designed to poke at the foundations of European unity and to foment chaos in Eastern European nations that can later be exploited.
 
Whatever happened to the international Red commie conspiracy and the Moscow gold that sustained it?

The players and their titles change. The song remains the same.

The U.S. has oceans and aircraft carriers to maintain its integrity and supply lines. Russia is bordered on other countries, intrigue is the weapon of choice.

That said, much of the article I read seemed inferential. Where are the hard facts?
 
Whatever happened to the international Red commie conspiracy and the Moscow gold that sustained it?

What are you suggesting? That there was no effort to spread communism? That there was no funding from Moscow to foreign agents (even including the leader of the Labour party!)?
 
Whatever happened to the international Red commie conspiracy and the Moscow gold that sustained it?
The constant is Russia, of course, the opponent is Western Europe, and the arena is Central Europe and the Balkans.

This thing's been going on for three hundred years.
 
The players and their titles change. The song remains the same.

The U.S. has oceans and aircraft carriers to maintain its integrity and supply lines. Russia is bordered on other countries, intrigue is the weapon of choice.
Brute force is the Russian weapon of choice, and always has been. Intrigue is an adjunct or last resort.

That said, much of the article I read seemed inferential. Where are the hard facts?
How serious are the implications? It doesn't require Russian interference to explain the rise of the far-right in Central Europe or, indeed, beyond.
 
What are you suggesting? That there was no effort to spread communism? That there was no funding from Moscow to foreign agents (even including the leader of the Labour party!)?
Oh dear, Spycatcher lives on.

The Politburo was never much in favour of subversion. It's not a frame of mind they liked to encourage.
 
Please don't personalise the debate.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha
 
The players and their titles change. The song remains the same.

The U.S. has oceans and aircraft carriers to maintain its integrity and supply lines. Russia is bordered on other countries, intrigue is the weapon of choice.

If there's one country which is known for its post-WW2 use of far-right extremists as a method of power projection it'll be the US.

That said, much of the article I read seemed inferential. Where are the hard facts?

Apparently there are none, though they may very well be doing it.
 
What are you suggesting? That there was no effort to spread communism? That there was no funding from Moscow to foreign agents (even including the leader of the Labour party!)?
There you are! The dear old Labour Party was an arm of the world commie conspiracy, led by one of its agents?

Personally I never trusted that Hugh Gaitskell, so I'm not a bit surprised. But look who's getting the Moscow gold now. A weird Hungarian outfit called Jobbie or something like that.

It's a disgrace. Standards are collapsing even in the world commie conspiracy!
 
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Smertin went on to dismiss behaviour that many might consider racist as "fun".

"Racism in Russia is like fashion. It comes from abroad, from different countries," he said.

"It was never, ever here before. Ten years ago, some fans may have given a banana to black guys - it was just for fun.

"I think the media is making the wrong image of Russia."

Former Cameroon international Andre Bikey, who played in Russia from 2005 to 2006, took umbrage at Smertin's comments.

"He says there is no racism in Russia. Racism is everywhere," said the former Lokomotiv Moscow defender.

"It happened to me, it happened to my team-mates - we have to fight against it, especially with the World Cup going there in three years' time."

Bikey carried a gun for his personal safety while in Russia, following an incident when he was physically attacked by "six or seven" people on the streets of Moscow.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/34297056
 
Are you disputing that Jobbik is fascist? And even if you are, what relevance does this have to my question?
If I'm an apologist for fascism as you claim, and you post me a message stating that "You know, a Hungary for Hungarians like a Ukraine for Ukrainians" then I have a right to know whether that's fascism or not. According to you, sympathy for Ukrainian independence is promoting fascism, so is supporting Hungarian independence promoting fascism as well?

Hungary was in fact a fascist country and an ally of Nazi Germany in WW2, and it has a fascist party active in it today, as you point out. So I ask again, if sympathy for Ukrainian independence is fascism, is supporting Hungarian independence fascism too? If not, why not? And if it is fascist to have independence in Hungary, by what country should Hungary be taken over to stop it from being fascist?
 
if I'm an apologist for fascism as you claim, and you post me a message stating that "You know, a Hungary for Hungarians like a Ukraine for Ukrainians" then I have a right to know whether that's fascism or not.

In this context, ie promoted by fascist groups with a clear meaning, yes it is. Heck it always is, when have you seen such slogans being promoted by non-fascist groups? How is this even contentious? Have you read the link?

According to you, sympathy for Ukrainian independence is promoting fascism, so is supporting Hungarian independence promoting fascism as well?

Hungary was in fact a fascist country and an ally of Nazi Germany in WW2, and it has a fascist party active in it today, as you point out. So I ask again, if sympathy for Ukrainian independence is fascism, is supporting Hungarian independence fascism too?

My question is pretty simple, if Ukrainian Nazi groups are sympathetic then why aren't Hungarian ones? Clearly the case can be made equally for Hungary as for Ukraine with respect to having been oppressed by the former Soviet Union.
 
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My question is pretty simple, if Ukrainian Nazi groups are sympathetic then why aren't Hungarian ones? Clearly the case can be made equally for Hungary as for Ukraine with respect to having been oppressed by the former Soviet Union.
My question was simple too, and I asked first. If supporting Ukrainian independence is fascism, as you say; then is supporting Hungarian independence also fascism? If not, why not? If independence in Hungary is fascism, then what country should take Hungary over to stop it being fascist? Let's get this settled first.

In 1918 Poland, Finland and Hungary all declared themselves independent. So did Ukraine, but it was invaded by Poland and then Russia, and it remained under Soviet rule until its secession caused the dissolution of the USSR in 1991. So if supporting independence for one country is fascism, why not another? You say, ah well there are fascists in Ukraine. But we are agreed that there are also fascists in Hungary, so no difference there. A strong fascist party exists in France, if it comes to that. Is it fascist to support independence for France, because the FN has a significant level of support?
 
Don't let caveman derail the conversation by bringing up Ukraine. This thread is about Russian support of fascist groups in Europe.
 

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