Rumsfeld and Military Abuse

Dancing David

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Dancing David
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I found this article by cruising through the media views onFAIR it is from some truely whacky left leaning journal, so please don't just comment on the poor nature of the journal.

Story here


For almost two decades, the United States has urged Latin American militaries to move away from the Cold War ''national-security'' doctrines that resulted in so many abuses in the region. But last week Rumsfeld appeared to be preaching the virtues of reviving such an approach, perhaps under a new name, like ''national sovereignty''.
Indeed, in remarks to his fellow-defense ministers, Rumsfeld even suggested that, given the challenges posed by 21st-century threats, it was time to re-think the separation of the armed forces from the police -- a major reform pursued by U.S. and Latin American human-rights organizations as a way of asserting civilian control over the military and reducing abuses.
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I have been wondering about this , under Nixon we had the establishment of Pinochet and the overturning of a democracy, under Regan we had right wing death squads tearing up the Latin American country side.

1. Will Bush continue to support the use of right wing terror tactics in Latin America?

2. Is this a wise tactic?
 
Re: Re: Rumsfeld and Military Abuse

Rob Lister said:
1. Have you stopped beating your wife?

2. Is this a wise tactic?
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Are you saying that George Bush beats his wife or that you support his tactics. Your opaque answer says little.

(BTW I don't beat my wife , do you?)
 
Re: Re: Re: Rumsfeld and Military Abuse

Dancing David said:
....(BTW I don't beat my wife , do you?)
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Has Rob Lister met your wife?
 
My wife wouldn't beat any body, including Rob!

Why don't people care about this issue? Is it okay for our government to topple other democraticaly elected governments and to train and pay for terrorists who rape and murder children. We need to remember that Nixon was greeted with eggs and rocks when he visited Latin America, it is not because they oppose our way of life!

It is because we are a nation that practices hypocrisy, we say that we support freedom and democracy, then we fund facist death squads that terrorise thier own people. We say that we fight drug lordsd and then use them in our foriegb schemes.

Sigh.
 
Dancing David said:
My wife wouldn't beat any body, including Rob!

Why don't people care about this issue?
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If you frame it honestly, without rhetoric, I might. If you frame it as a 'has X stopped beating his wife', I'd treat it that way.
 
Dancing David said:
My wife wouldn't beat any body, including Rob!

Why don't people care about this issue? Is it okay for our government to topple other democraticaly elected governments and to train and pay for terrorists who rape and murder children. We need to remember that Nixon was greeted with eggs and rocks when he visited Latin America, it is not because they oppose our way of life!

It is because we are a nation that practices hypocrisy, we say that we support freedom and democracy, then we fund facist death squads that terrorise thier own people. We say that we fight drug lordsd and then use them in our foriegb schemes.

Sigh.
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Governments mostly act in their own interests. We say we support freedom, but we have an income tax. We say we support democracy, but we have an election system that is controlled by the parties and built in such a way that any challenge to their power is made impotent. We say we support civil rights, but we have gun laws and anti-gay laws. I hate this crap as much as you, but as long as politicians and voters are willing to piss on American principles out of convenience, what can be done?
 
Rob Lister said:
If you frame it honestly, without rhetoric, I might. If you frame it as a 'has X stopped beating his wife', I'd treat it that way.
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I am asking you this, do you support the over throw of the democraticaly elected government of Chile? Do you support the use of right wing desath squads in Central America?

These things are not rhetoric, they are reality, does it offend some sensibility of yours to be honest about what our government does. Many former government members admit to these things, does it offend you that they happened. Or does it just offend you that someone would question our government doing these things?

You pick up the gauntlet and then run away. What do you think is honest? Please educate me as to what I have said that is dishonest.

I await my education, I am always open to reading and learning new things. So what is the honest truth about Pinochet?
 
Dancing David said:
I am asking you this, do you support the over throw of the democraticaly elected government of Chile? Do you support the use of right wing desath squads in Central America?

These things are not rhetoric, they are reality, does it offend some sensibility of yours to be honest about what our government does. Many former government members admit to these things, does it offend you that they happened. Or does it just offend you that someone would question our government doing these things?

You pick up the gauntlet and then run away. What do you think is honest? Please educate me as to what I have said that is dishonest.

I await my education, I am always open to reading and learning new things. So what is the honest truth about Pinochet?
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It's the way you phrased your first question. Instead of, "Will Bush continue to support the use of right wing terror tactics in Latin America?" perhaps it would have been better to phrase it, "Will Bush also support the use of right wing terror tactics in Latin America?"

The way you phrased it sounds like you are saying he already does support the use of right wing terror tactics in Latin America, and you want to know if he plans on continuing.
 
Luke T., Thanks, I didn't realize that there was some question of wether or not Bush would support the use of such tactics. I asked my question in the original post because Rumsfeld was reccomending the blending of the military and police forces in Central America to help defeat terrorism.

I asked because I thought people could debate it.

A quick google search on Rumsfeld and his trip to Quito, showed that he was mainly praising the efforts of Eucaudor to fight the drug trade, while as a side light he mentioned the war on terror. From those reports it would appear that the Bush administration is cozy with most of the Central American governments. So I would assume he is asupportive of the right wing ones as well.

If he doesn't support right wing deatyh squads, has he said that anywhere? Has he condemned them and called them the mini axis of evil?
 
Just in case you might think that things are cool in central america and all the governments we are cozy with are into democracy...

Amnesty Report on Ecuador

"I’m in the courtyard of the Judicial Police [Policia Judicial] inside a red car, come here and go right to the back, they’re going to kill me". These were the last words that Jhonny Gómez Balda managed to say to his wife.

Jhonny Gómez Balda, Cesar Angusto Mata Valenzuela y Edwin Daniel Vivar Palma were arrested on 19th November 2003 during a police operation following an alleged robbery at a chemist’s belonging to the company Fybeca, in Guayaquil. Nobody has seen them since. Eight civilians died during the same operation. According to the forensic reports, the victims showed signs of having been executed by the police.
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