Republican Tax Refund?

[TimCallahan]

Since the Republicans have shut down portions of the government, and the money already collected in taxes isn't being used by those portions of the government, is the GOP going to refund any of our taxes? Another question is this: Are they going to shut down their own offices and not collect their wages, since they aren't, at present working on any legislation?

Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments? After all, the revenues collected from these far outweighs the money spent to keep them staffed and open.

ETA: Go here to see what's being shut down (excerpts from the site):

Vital services that ensure seniors and young children have access to healthy food and meals may not have sufficient Federal funds to serve all beneficiaries in an extended lapse.

Research into life-threatening diseases and other areas will stop, and new patients won’t be accepted into clinical trials at the National Institutes of Health.

Work to protect consumers, ranging from child product safety to financial security to the safety of hazardous waste facilities, will cease. The EPA will halt non-essential inspections of chemical facilities and drinking water systems.

 

[The Big Dog]

Since the Republicans have shut down portions of the government, and the money already collected in taxes isn't being used by those portions of the government, is the GOP going to refund any of our taxes? Another question is this: Are they going to shut down their own offices and not collect their wages, since they aren't, at present working on any legislation?

Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments? After all, the revenues collected from these far outweighs the money spent to keep them staffed and open.

ETA: Go here to see what's being shut down (excerpts from the site):

Vital services that ensure seniors and young children have access to healthy food and meals may not have sufficient Federal funds to serve all beneficiaries in an extended lapse.

Research into life-threatening diseases and other areas will stop, and new patients won’t be accepted into clinical trials at the National Institutes of Health.

Work to protect consumers, ranging from child product safety to financial security to the safety of hazardous waste facilities, will cease. The EPA will halt non-essential inspections of chemical facilities and drinking water systems.

I don't know, what did they do when Tip O'Neil shut down the government and "Vital services that ensure seniors and young children have access to healthy food and meals may not have sufficient Federal funds to serve all beneficiaries in an extended lapse.Research into life-threatening diseases and other areas will stop, and new patients won’t be accepted into clinical trials at the National Institutes of Health.Work to protect consumers, ranging from child product safety to financial security to the safety of hazardous waste facilities, will cease. The EPA will halt non-essential inspections of chemical facilities and drinking water systems.?"

Probably do the same thing, right? Sounds like a precedent.

 

[Spindrift]

Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments? After all, the revenues collected from these far outweighs the money spent to keep them staffed and open.

Really? You mean like all the museums on the National Mall that are free to get in to? What revenue do the monuments generate?

 

[Ziggurat]

Really? You mean like all the museums on the National Mall that are free to get in to? What revenue do the monuments generate?

The monuments are a bad example because there's basically no cost to keeping them "open". In fact, it costs more money to try to close them. There are upkeep costs, but they don't need to be incurred on a daily basis. The attempt to close down the WW2 monument, for example, is petty and vindictive and makes zero sense from a purely budgetary perspective.

But in general, I don't think most of the museums on the mall, or most national parks, can break even on their own let alone produce net-positive revenue. I'd be interested in seeing data to the contrary, if anyone has any.

 

[Joecool]

Since the Republicans have shut down portions of the government, and the money already collected in taxes isn't being used by those portions of the government, is the GOP going to refund any of our taxes? Another question is this: Are they going to shut down their own offices and not collect their wages, since they aren't, at present working on any legislation?

Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments? After all, the revenues collected from these far outweighs the money spent to keep them staffed and open.

ETA: Go here to see what's being shut down (excerpts from the site):

Vital services that ensure seniors and young children have access to healthy food and meals may not have sufficient Federal funds to serve all beneficiaries in an extended lapse.

Research into life-threatening diseases and other areas will stop, and new patients won’t be accepted into clinical trials at the National Institutes of Health.

Work to protect consumers, ranging from child product safety to financial security to the safety of hazardous waste facilities, will cease. The EPA will halt non-essential inspections of chemical facilities and drinking water systems.

I thought after the last shutdown, the government ended up back paying all the workers even though they did not work.

 

[casebro]

.....Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments?
....

Because the Dems want the shut down to have the most visible impact for the voters, and blame it all on the Repubs.

 

[Kopji]

Tail does not wag dog, it is the other way around.

 

[pgwenthold]

I thought after the last shutdown, the government ended up back paying all the workers even though they did not work.

This is why it would be so easy for all the politicians to say they are going to forego their paycheck during the shutdown. Yet, see the video of the interview with the two GOP congresspeople who, when asked if they would give up their salary, yes or no, talked about everything but whether they would do that.

 

[Spindrift]

Because the Dems want the shut down to have the most visible impact for the voters, and blame it all on the Repubs.

Well the blame does lie all with the Republicans.

 

[TimCallahan]

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

.....Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments?
....

Because the Dems want the shut down to have the most visible impact for the voters, and blame it all on the Repubs.

Nonsense. The Democrats aren't the ones shutting things down.

 

[TimCallahan]

Really? You mean like all the museums on the National Mall that are free to get in to? What revenue do the monuments generate?

Every time I've gone into a National Park - such as Yosemite or Yellowstone - I've had to pay an entrance fee. Camp sites within the parks cost additional money. Before an area is made into a national park, it's a national monument. I'm pretty sure my wife and I had to pay entrance fees to get into those areas as well. However, I could be mistaken. Perhaps you and I mean different things by "national monument." Most museums have gift shops and cafeterias attached.

 

[Spindrift]

Every time I've gone into a National Park - such as Yosemite or Yellowstone - I've had to pay an entrance fee. Camp sites within the parks cost additional money. Before an area is made into a national park, it's a national monument. I'm pretty sure my wife and I had to pay entrance fees to get into those areas as well. However, I could be mistaken. Perhaps you and I mean different things by "national monument." Most museums have gift shops and cafeterias attached.

Do you think entrance fees cover the costs of running a park? How much does one park ranger cost? How about maintenance people? Insurance? Equipment? Etc.

Do you think gift shops and cafeterias cover the cost of running a world class museum?

 

[TimCallahan]

On a personal note, I live in the foothills of Altadena, an unincorporated area north of Pasadena, California. I live on the edge of the Angeles National Forest. While I understood, when my wife and I moved in here, that we would experience a higher than average risk of our house burning down if a forest fire hit our area, and that our insurance costs would be high, we did move in with the reasonable expectation that government infrastructure would be intact.

As a result of the shutdown, fire towers in the forest are now unmanned. Apparently, since, under the bureaucracy, even volunteers are officially government employees, they are now barred from manning the towers, even on a non-paying, volunteer basis.

So, are Boner and company going to recompense me should a forest fire go undetected and burn us out of our home?

 

[TimCallahan]

Do you think entrance fees cover the costs of running a park? How much does one park ranger cost? How about maintenance people? Insurance? Equipment? Etc.

Do you think gift shops and cafeterias cover the cost of running a world class museum?

Perhaps not. However, the parks do generate money. Consider this article. From the article:

WASHINGTON — Arizona’s tourism industry stands to lose millions of dollars per day if national parks close as part of a possible federal government shutdown this week.

Visitors to Arizona’s national parks spent an average of $2.7 million a day in each of the last two Octobers, according to a National Parks Conservation Association compilation of Park Service numbers. Visitors at Grand Canyon National Park alone spend $1.2 million per day, the association said.

Or, you might check this one out. From the article:

A government shutdown if Republicans and Democrats cannot agree to even a temporary spending bill will not necessarily serve to save as much money as budget-slicing lawmakers are hoping to cut - in fact it may cost taxpayers greatly in uncollected fees and revenue and delayed services.
It could also hit private businesses dependent upon tourism at national parks and monuments that will be forced to close.

 

[Spindrift]

Perhaps not. However, the parks do generate money. Consider this article. From the article:

WASHINGTON — Arizona’s tourism industry stands to lose millions of dollars per day if national parks close as part of a possible federal government shutdown this week.

Visitors to Arizona’s national parks spent an average of $2.7 million a day in each of the last two Octobers, according to a National Parks Conservation Association compilation of Park Service numbers. Visitors at Grand Canyon National Park alone spend $1.2 million per day, the association said.

Tourists spend that much at hotels, restaurants, car rentals, etc. All that money does not go to the parks.

 

[TimCallahan]

Tourists spend that much at hotels, restaurants, car rentals, etc. All that money does not go to the parks.

You're missing the point: Tourists aren't going to be spending money at a hotel or restaurant in the vicinity of, say, the Grand Canyon if they can't go to the Grand Canyon.

Here's another article on the negative fiscal effects of the shutdown. From the article:

Obviously, a government shutdown isn’t ideal, but at least the government will save money and can start paying off its near $17 trillion debt, right? Wrong. If past shutdowns are any indication, closing down the federal government will cost American taxpayers, according to the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Budget.

 

[Spindrift]

You're missing the point: Tourists aren't going to be spending money at a hotel or restaurant in the vicinity of, say, the Grand Canyon if they can't go to the Grand Canyon.

Here's another article on the negative fiscal effects of the shutdown.

I'm aware of that. You originally suggested that they could keep the parks open based on the revenue they generate. Well the parks themselves do not generate enough revenue to keep them open. That is my point.

 

[TimCallahan]

I'm aware of that. You originally suggested that they could keep the parks open based on the revenue they generate. Well the parks themselves do not generate enough revenue to keep them open. That is my point.

Still, they indirectly generate revenue. That revenue is lost when they are closed. I think you're being excessively nit-picking. The shutdown of the parks is costing Americans money.

 

[Spindrift]

Still, they indirectly generate revenue. That revenue is lost when they are closed. I think you're being excessively nit-picking. The shutdown of the parks is costing Americans money.

I never said that closing them isn't costing Americans money.

I was responding to this question:

Another question I have is this: Why shut down national parks, museums and monuments? After all, the revenues collected from these far outweighs the money spent to keep them staffed and open.

The revenues collected DO NOT far outweigh the money spent to keep them open. National parks are not profit centers. They cost more than they take in.

The parks, museums and monuments do not generate enough direct revenue to support opening them. The indirect revenue is irrelevant.

 

[TimCallahan]

I never said that closing them isn't costing Americans money.

I was responding to this question:


The revenues collected DO NOT far outweigh the money spent to keep them open. National parks are not profit centers. They cost more than they take in.

The parks, museums and monuments do not generate enough direct revenue to support opening them. The indirect revenue is irrelevant.

The indirect revenue is real and is, of course, NOT irrelevant. When all is said and done, there's a financial plus side to keeping them open. That is my point. Apparently, you're having a hard time getting it.