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Religious sprawl - a bad sign?

Z

Variable Constant
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Apr 16, 2004
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A thought just occured to me, and I don't know what to make of it.

Examine the evolution of religion through the ages versus the evolution of science.

As near as we can tell, religion started as a form of animism, then progressed into a primitive goddess-worship, which was very similar world-wide. Then some fantastic diversification happened, a lot of religions formed embracing just about everything.

Then a patriarchal faith emerged and began stamping out other faiths, but itself diversified heavily.

Since fragments of all of these religions survived, the result is what started as a fairly common concept (animism) has turned into a vast sprawl of faiths. It may be rationalized that 'Judaism/Christianity/Islam' has gained dominance, but it should be recognized that this encompasses literally thousands of (often conflicting) faith systems.

In fact, I dare say, there are probably literally tens of thousands of religions world-wide, each proclaiming truth to some degree.

On the other hand, science was all but non-existent at first, but has progressed as man has had to learn more about his world. Sadly, I don't know the proper progression of science, but it is easy to see a few points:

1) Once something is disproven, it generally remains disproven, such as the flat earth or the Earth-centered universe. Yes, some Flat Earthers remain, but by and large, all scientists accept a non-flat Earth.

2) Scientists generally attempt to reach 'common ground' and work hard to learn the truth - often having to disprove their own pet theorems.

3) In spite of diverse fields of science, science as a whole follows one model, one system, one mode of operation (Now, this may be false; I assume the vast majority of scientists use the 'Scientific Method' and work under similar understandings of hypothesis, theorem, and 'law'... but that might not be so). Since this obviously wasn't true in the Past, then it's clear that science is slowly but surely unifying.

So religion, in spite of general wide-spread favor, is diversifying and sprawling so that no one religion is really too popular; but science, while growing more slowly, is becoming more solid and consistant, and may even be unifying.

Obviously there are exceptions both ways, and I don't claim to know for sure if the science side of this argument is true...

But just look at the state 'Christianity' is in.

religioustolerance.org on Christianity

"Christian faith groups:
One source estimates that there are 34,000 separate Christian groups in the world.
We have attempted to sort them into:

Three meta-groups, (Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and Protestantism)

Three wings, (conservative, mainline and liberal)

Fifteen Religious families, (Adventist, Baptist, Lutheran, Reform....)

Dozens of denominations, (from the Amish to The Way), and

Many systems of belief (Arminianism, British Israelism, Calvinism...)"

Just from this, we see that Christianity is a vast generic term, hardly a 'religion' at all, that encompasses thousands of individual belief systems.

If there was truth to religion, why aren't religions unifying? Why this mass diversification?

I propose that this diversification is due to one fact: there is no underlying truth behind any specific religion.

Anyway... not sure what to make of this thought...
 
Well, it doesn't matter to the True Believers (TM). After all, their church is the Official Right One, Built By God, and all the 34,000 others are just filled with pretenders (AKA 'not real Christians') who'll burn for their crime of being in the wrong church! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
 
It is an interesting point. Religion is based on faith. Science is based on evidence. Evidence either supports a theory or it does not. Science has to go where the evidence leads. There is no such constraint on faith. You can have faith in anything. After all; all that is required is that you believe. Consequently, religion subdivides endlessly as people decide to put their faith in slightly different versions of "the truth".

The Catholic church ran into this issue long before the reformation. Catholicism tried to contain it by being a big tent with various orders and a saint for everyone. However, the process eventually got so out of hand that even the big tent of Catholicism could no longer contain it and Europe was rent by the bloody wars of the reformation. The splitting continues today in both Catholic and Protestant denominations.
 
I wouldn't call it "spawl", just that people are settling down more and coming to terms with their faith. My own experience started when I began marriage counselling (me and my fiance were living together for economic reasons.. a big no-no in our religion). The class was made up of people like ourselves, fresh out of college but trying to start our lives too quickly by buying houses and exploring sex before we were ready.

Some of us still keep in touch, and we also get together for board games each month!
 
zaayrdragon

From what I understand from the OT there was other gods that people worshipped. Even the famous unknown god mentioned later in Rome. It seemed that everyone worshipped something or someone. God in the christian view was trying to teach the people how to live successfully in life (keeping in mind there was not alot of technology at this point like you said) It stuck me when I read it that all the laws were not just cermony, it really does make sense to stop eating pork in the desert.

You mention diversification but I think there was always that from the begining. There is mention of many other gods in the OT. What about the tower of Babylon? So Im not sure its new sprawl.

Ive often thought about why so many types of say churches, I think its because we all have so many types of personalities. Some like it quiet and ordered like a catholic service, or dancing in the aisles in a charasmatic service, personalities expressing themselves in honoring the Lord.

In Revelations there was the 7 churches who each had points they were good at and those that needed work, pretty much like it is today. And you probably are not aware of it but there is a big move on the churches part to come to common grounds as you mentioned science has.

But like science people will always have their own extra ideas but may agree on core things.

For sure science has advanced but sometimes we pronounce our ancestors too primitive, we still havent figured out the pyrmaids.

As for the flat earth type stuff, they are still trying to say that they didnt go to the moon and on and on. Like those that deny the holocast happened, there was a teacher here that was teaching that very thing. Hatred does that to people.

Another thing is our world is getting smaller there are those on this boards that are from all over its quite interesting actually.

That may account for what you are thinking ,we are aware that 80 children died today in India, in a school fire, years ago we didnt even know where India was.
:)
 
Kitty, you do have some good points.

In fact, Judaism never denied multiple gods until close to the time of the rise of Chrisianity. What is conveyed in the OT is not worship of the Only God, but worship of one particularly jealous and insistant God.

At the time of Jesus' birth, there were four main sects of Judaism; after his death, three primary sects of Christianity arose. In the polytheistic world, every area payed homage to dozens, sometimes hundreds, of deities.

Perhaps the flaw in my thinking is failing to examine religious diversity properly. The modern population being so much higher could me that, proportionally, the concentration of faiths is still fairly even. Also, if we recognize worship of each deity or group of deities in pantheistic societies, and compare this to the thousands of brands of God-worship available, adjusted to account for total population...

Well, I'm not much of a statistician, but that does shed an interesting light on things. I assumed Christianity/Judaism/Islam in singular terms (within each branch), rather than examining the vast array of named and unnamed sects within each faith.

Another factor to consider, I'm sure, is the amount of respect for vested authority we have now versus in the past. Leaders were definitely more deeply respected and honored than they are today; people in, say, 200 A.D. were more likely to do what their priest or king said than they are now. Part of that has to do with the vast seperation that exists - Catholics in England are so far geographically from Rome that commands of the Pope seem to be words from a distant voice. Plus, more vast populations adds the insulation of anonimity into the obedience factor. When the priest knows you personally, I think you're more likely to give heed to him.

The factors to 'religious sprawl' are dizzying, in fact! If only I weren't tied to a large family, free to devote my life to the study of this notion!

But, I have my life to lead - I'll have to let this concept settle in the dust of ages. Perhaps some scholar somewhere might devote time to analyzing these factors properly.

BTW - Quick personal plug - Last night, at 11:20 P.M., my first DAUGHTER was born! Aurora Skye weighed in at 9 lbs, 7.2 oz, measured 22 inches, and is just lovely. However, since I have five other children to care for, and delivery was by C-section, I had to come home. Once the kids are rested, I'll be returning to the hospital, but for now I see no reason not to continue to indulge in my pasttime of pseudointellectual debate!
 
zaayrdragon said:

BTW - Quick personal plug - Last night, at 11:20 P.M., my first DAUGHTER was born! Aurora Skye weighed in at 9 lbs, 7.2 oz, measured 22 inches, and is just lovely. However, since I have five other children to care for, and delivery was by C-section, I had to come home. Once the kids are rested, I'll be returning to the hospital, but for now I see no reason not to continue to indulge in my pasttime of pseudointellectual debate!

Congratulations! Give your family my best, your wife especially. :clap:

Five boys, and she let you get anywhere near her? You better cherish that woman! :D
 
zaayrdragon said:

BTW - Quick personal plug - Last night, at 11:20 P.M., my first DAUGHTER was born! Aurora Skye weighed in at 9 lbs, 7.2 oz, measured 22 inches, and is just lovely. However, since I have five other children to care for, and delivery was by C-section, I had to come home. Once the kids are rested, I'll be returning to the hospital, but for now I see no reason not to continue to indulge in my pasttime of pseudointellectual debate!
Congratulations!!!!!

(and you still have time to post here? Oh, that's right, you won't be sleeping much for the next decade or so...)
 
zaayrdragon said:

The BTW - Quick personal plug - Last night, at 11:20 P.M., my first DAUGHTER was born! Aurora Skye weighed in at 9 lbs, 7.2 oz, measured 22 inches, and is just lovely.

Yes CONGRATULATIONS

I wish you all well :D
 
Thanks, folks.

Sleep? What is this 'sleep' of which you speak?

lol

I blame my chronic insomnia on having had 5 kids already! lol
 

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