Religion is a necessary evil

[Gaspode]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead?

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

 

[slingblade]

How about we believe in ourselves and in each other?

How about we make each other and ourselves the most important thing--the thing we're trying to live well for?

I can't see how displacing all that onto an imaginary being is helpful....

 

[Katana]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead?

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

Just noticed your signature. Do you share Ayn Rand's feelings on religion?

 

[Gaspode]

Just noticed your signature. Do you share Ayn Rand's feelings on religion?

Yes I do - and not just religion. I've only recently discovered Ayn Rand (thanks to this forum) and so far know little about her and her writing. I definitely need to find out a lot more.

 

[Katana]

Yes I do - and not just religion. I've only recently discovered Ayn Rand (thanks to this forum) and so far know little about her and her writing. I definitely need to find out a lot more.

She's worth finding out more about (in my humble opinion, of course).

The Fountainhead is what started it for me.

 

[Ginarley]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead?

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

Why does anyone need to "believe" in anything?

 

[Danhalen]

I would not call religion necessary or evil. If religion is the primary source of morality for the masses, then religion is a shortcut to behaving properly (provided religious ethics are actually morally good). So, religion is laziness in some cases. It provides a short-cut to behaving morally without trying to determine how to act well by one's self. In the case of the intellectually lazy, religion could be a good thing for me, because it gives the lazy a means by which they do not cause me harm. However, if it were possible to motivate the intellectually lazy to think for themselves, then religion would not be necessary to instill a sense of morality. Considering religious morality often leads to a perceived objective morality, the differing religious morals often conflict (my god says your god is wrong, therefore I should force you to think like I do). Therefore it seems to me it is more morally necessary to help the intellectually lazy become motivated to think on morallity for themselves.

Religion is not inherently evil. Religion can serve a (good) purpose. Religion is hardly necessary.

 

[ReligionStudent]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead?

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

Lots of people don't believe in anything instead. Isn't that alright?

 

[Athyrio]

...snip....I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

From an economic viewpoint, it gives certain people employment as preachers, secretaries, and other paid functionaries, and in turn they buy land which yields capital gain to the original owner, build churches which employs the construction industry, purchase choir robes and religious literature which increases the business of the garment industry and the printshops, all of which must be delivered by the transportation industry, and they purchase furniture and carpet, all of which trickles down the line too and all of those employed in these industries also have jobs and more monies to purchase their goods and services, and eventually some of these preachers end up on television selling advertising time and in the sweet by-and-by, they get super-rich and indulge in serious luxury items and in the end everybody benefits.

i probably left out a few items or steps but i think you get my point. Any job from drug dealing to flim-flam benefits all.

We don't need to "believe" in anything.

 

[Gaspode]

Many more people believe in a god than don't. I for one do not believe in any god.

But most people have a need to believe in something. If there were no organised religions to cater for this belief then what would people believe in instead? I think we would see a lot more adherance to other woo beliefs such as mediums, crystal healing, reiki.

The point is that religion offers solace to many people and the major religions do at least purport to follow a moral code. I wonder what would fill the void if religion did not exist. Would the world be a nicer place?

 

[Beleth]

There are certainly people who imagine that non-believers have no reason to act ethically. To them I say, It is a good thing you believe in God, then; if that's what keeps you in line, then by all means keep doing it.

I need no such belief to keep myself in line, but I understand and accept such a need in others.

 

[Jorghnassen]

So religion is like coffee...

 

[darnell11]

I don't think that people in a modern, scientific society need to believe in a god, besides we know better. But it seems that primitive societies need to, it's how the come to understand their world without technology, it gives them rules to live by and peace knowing that there is more to life and that death is not the end. But once a civilization develops and begins to learn about to world scientifically, religion is something we can do without, in my opinion.

But you can't erase it entirely-believing in a higher power seems to be a part of human nature, but our intelligence gives us a way to escape religion once we learn how to understand the world around us. Only some people still have that need to believe in something beyond them and that need for there to be meaning to life.

 

[Freethinker]

People tend to imagine that others are very much like themselves. Religious people believe that people who don't believe in god have no moral compass and nothing to prevent them from committing crimes. This leads to the thought that these religious people believe that they would become immoral if it weren't for the fear of god sending them to hell.

Who is more moral? Someone who apparently is only behaving for fear of hell, or someone who is behaving in spite of their belief that there is no eternal punishment

 

[Davidjayjordan]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead? (thenmselves, their power, their politics, their apparrent qualities, etc. etc. they worship all sorts of crazy wierd things, but mainly they worship themselves and make themselves their gods)

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.
(And yes those that think they are gods do the same thing and group together as groupies in all sorts of forums for their self esteem.)

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

WELL, Gaspode, people, and supposed intellectuals and atheists, and evolutionists, ... they all need groups in which to feel comfortable and sheltered. So we have to allow them the freedom to choose and just hope they can break away from these groups so they can be individuals and free thinkers. But we can't force them, just encourage them.

Sure we'd be better off without these religions of man where they worship their man made gods, but they have to come to that understanding on their own. All we can do is try to patiently help them get liberated.

 

[darnell11]

People use religion in order to control people. You don't have to believe in the god or gods; but make sure the masses do. People have a need to believe in something beyond them, and people have a need for power and control. Religion is perfect for that. Maybe it's the easiest way to control people? But, I don't think we need to control people with religion; it's a lie.

 

[Kopji]

Many more people believe in a god than don't. I for one do not believe in any god.

But most people have a need to believe in something. If there were no organised religions to cater for this belief then what would people believe in instead? I think we would see a lot more adherance to other woo beliefs such as mediums, crystal healing, reiki.

The point is that religion offers solace to many people and the major religions do at least purport to follow a moral code. I wonder what would fill the void if religion did not exist. Would the world be a nicer place?

They would believe that being creative gave life meaning. Instead of artists being rare, they would be common. People would meet in the old churches to drink beer, sing happy songs, and throw clay pots. There would be Sunday poetry slams, retreat seminars on writing, film festivals once a month. We would realize that this one life was all the time we had to live, and people would work to help make that time a good and productive one for each person who entered the world, not just for a few lucky ones.

we'd gather around all in a room fasten our belts engage in dialogue
we'd all slow down rest without guilt not lie without fear disagree sans judgement

we would stay and respond and expand and include and allow and forgive and
enjoy and evolve and discern and inquire and accept and admit and divulge and open and reach out and speak up

This is utopia this is my utopia
This is my ideal my end in sight
Utopia this is my utopia
This is my nirvana
My ultimate

we'd open our arms we'd all jump in we'd all coast down into safety nets
we would share and listen and support and welcome be propelled by passion not invest in outcomes we would breathe and be charmed and amused by difference be gentle and make room for every emotion

we'd provide forums we'd all speak out we'd all be heard we'd all feel seen
we'd rise post-obstacle more defined more grateful we would heal be humbled
and be unstoppable we'd hold close and let go and know when to do which we'd release and disarm and stand up and feel safe

- Alanis Morissette

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

If people didn't believe in a God what would they believe in instead?

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity. This belief brings comfort to these people and makes them happy. Supposedly.

I just wonder what the general opinion here on the Forum is about religion - and whether we're better off with it or without it.

There is ample evidence religion plays little or no role in the moral choices of modern humans. The ability to differentiate right vs wrong is embedded in our DNA and society, not religion. Studies have shown that the moral choices between Atheists and those who are Religions are almost identical. Therefore we do not need religion for morality. Link to study

It's true that religions people tend to be happier than non-religious people (link), but this is only because of genetic causes. The gene VMAT2 is said to be the "God gene" in that it causes the religious ecstasy we see in religious people and is involved in monoamines, neurotransmitters which control emotional feelings. This means that non-religious people can hold specific beliefs and philosophies that also cause this gene to work, since Buddhists also benefit from it.

This basically means that religion is pointless and can be replaced by more rational and reasonable beliefs which provide the same emotional benefits.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

There are billions of people living their lives according to a moral code apparently bestowed on them by a benevolent omnipotent entity.

The Chinese officially have no religion, but they seem to have some morality. Cuba? The same. The majority of Americans are Christian, but they deplore slavery and public stoning to death for wearing mixed threads, so I don't think they get their morality from religion.

 

[frank462]

Originally Posted by Katana
Just noticed your signature. Do you share Ayn Rand's feelings on religion?

Originally Posted by Gaspode
Yes I do - and not just religion. I've only recently discovered Ayn Rand (thanks to this forum) and so far know little about her and her writing. I definitely need to find out a lot more.

She's worth finding out more about (in my humble opinion, of course).

The Fountainhead is what started it for me.

Atlas Shrugged was the first one of her's that I read. And IMHO it was her best work even though I have read everything else she ever wrote.
[size=+1]"Who is John Galt?"[/size]