Reiki Rubbish

[Kimpatsu]

Greetings, folks. I'm at it again, debating a (different) woo-woo on e-budo. (Where do they all come from?) After the no-touch KO debacle, which thread the moderator actually deleted because the woo-woo just descended into calling me all sorts of vile names (note that, unlike JREF, profanity is banned on e-budo), I thought the woo-woos might give it a rest, but no, here's a guy charging people money for therapeutic touch ("reiki"), and claiming he's curing them of sickness.
Come on over to e-budo and join in the fun!

 

[edthedoc]

I like your posts there: keep up the gentle pressure, asking for specific answers to your questions, don't rise to their offensive posts.

However, like most self-deluded woo-woos you're probably ultimately banging your head against a brick wall.

It's interesting that they're complaining about the cost of the courses: serves them right for being so stupid but someone else is clearly making a lot of money out of this. It's been pointed out before that there's little money to be made out of being a skeptic but losts to be made if you're a quack. Being a skeptic is much better fun because these woo-woo quacks are so easy to wind up.

Go for it, and if I have the time I'll register and start posting as well.

 

[scotth]

Good stuff there.

I am inclined to join you there as well. Is there a way to make a decent living at this kind of thing (trying to keep woo woos in check)?

 

[Kimpatsu]

Thanks for the support, folks. Unfortunately, you don't get paid for being a skeptic. I'm a scientific translator by profession, though, and work in a laboratory. I'd be willing to establish protocols for testing this guy. Interesting how he's resorted to calling me "stupid" though, don't you think?

 

[scotth]

Interesting how he's resorted to calling me "stupid" though, don't you think?

About as interesting as franko, UCE, and MM calling me stupid.

 

[Kimpatsu]

About as interesting as franko, UCE, and MM calling me stupid.

Scott, you and I are on course to become fast friends. We think alike.
Geez... you mean that everything MM, Franko, and their ilk write isn't true? Say not so!

 

[scotth]

Scott, you and I are on course to become fast friends. We think alike.
Geez... you mean that everything MM, Franko, and their ilk write isn't true? Say not so!

I wouldn't go that far.

I have seen Franko say we are made of atoms. I don't argue with that. I generally run into trouble a couple statements later though.

My biggest problem with MM was deciphering exactly what the intended meaning of his posts were. The composition was so poor that I was generally hesitant to refute them as I wasn't sure (and sometimes had no idea) what was being claimed.

At least with franko, I was sure what he was claiming.

Of course I read the sarcasm in your statement. None the less, I felt a serious answer was useful anyway.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Of course I read the sarcasm in your statement. None the less, I felt a serious answer was useful anyway.

Not sarcasm; satire. The great British contribution to humour.

 

[scotth]

Not sarcasm; satire. The great British contribution to humour.

What is a Brit doing in Tokyo? Must be a good story in there somewhere.

 

[Kimpatsu]

What is a Brit doing in Tokyo? Must be a good story in there somewhere.

Degree in Japanese from London University; MA in Japanese history from Kyoto University. Intended to stay 2 to 3 years after that; still here 12 years later.

 

[Thought Harvester]

A good effort! A site like that, you're bound to find at least a couple of lurkers on the fence. THAT's where the payoff is.

 

[Kimpatsu]

A good effort! A site like that, you're bound to find at least a couple of lurkers on the fence. THAT's where the payoff is.

Exactly my intent. The woo-woos are pretty much a lost cause, but maybe I can reach a lurker out there, somewhere, and turn them from the Dark Side.
Best,

 

[Guest]

Exactly my intent. The woo-woos are pretty much a lost cause, but maybe I can reach a lurker out there, somewhere, and turn them from the Dark Side.
Best,

IMO you are the one looking like an unreasonable goof. Your first post was incredibly abrasive, and so far this guy's post are more reasonable than yours.

Like I've said, the JREF challenge is a challenge, but it is not peer reviewed science, so why do you expect anyone but the bulk of tithing skeptics to consider it as more than interesting entertainment?

For example, this is a great post of yours Kimpatsu, which shows how ingrained your beliefs are:

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This is also a tactic of quacks put on the spot: Use ad hominem rather than supply evidence for their claims.
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You call him a quack, a woo-woo, and say he should be arrested for fraud, and then call him out for using an ad hom.

 

[Ladewig]

Darn you to heck, Kimpatsu. You've gone and made me agree with Whodini. Your approach is mighty aggressive for a believers' forum. They'll hear the name calling instead of the facts. If you are trying to influence the fence-sitters, I would suggest asking the strong believers how to distinguish between good Reiki practictioners and bad ones. You can then build on however their definition of bad ones to include all of them or gently point out fallacies in the distinguishing process.

Also, keep in mind that even if the Reiki healing stuff that they claim is all placebo effect, they still removed the subjective symptoms more quickly.

I'd also add that even if the brain tumor disappearred, the cancer could have metastasized and grown to a fatal level despite the "disapparence" of the tumor, or, as is so often pointed out in investigative news stories, the person may not have had a tumor in the first place. Ask if the before and after MRIs could be posted somewhere on the web for all to see.

 

[Kimpatsu]

You just don't get it, do you, guys?
This man is selling snake oil. That's deliberate fraud, and he has to be shut down. If you think I'm abrasive, you really don't understand the issue at hand here.
But what else could I expect from Whodini?

 

[Guest]

You just don't get it, do you, guys?
This man is selling snake oil. That's deliberate fraud, and he has to be shut down. If you think I'm abrasive, you really don't understand the issue at hand here.

C'mon Kimpastu,

If people like you ruled the world, there would be witch hunts (minus the killing probably).

You automatically call him a fraud. That is hardly a skeptical stance. Guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

You say that because him or no one else has passed the JREF challenge. However, why do you expect people to take it seriously when the results aren't published in a peer reviewed journal? Why do you determine that it is more than interesting entertainment?

I like it when you then jump on the backs of the people in that thread who showed interest in reiki.

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But what else could I expect from Whodini?
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Oooh, I'm hurt.

Your threads are out there for everyone to read and make up their own mind about.

 

[Kimpatsu]

If people like you ruled the world, there would be witch hunts (minus the killing probably).

No, not witch hunts. Witches don't exist. I'd just silence all dissent, like Robert Mugabe.

You automatically call him a fraud. That is hardly a skeptical stance. Guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

It's not him who's on trial; it's the art of reiki. And that's been disproven countless times.

You say that because him or no one else has passed the JREF challenge. However, why do you expect people to take it seriously when the results aren't published in a peer reviewed journal? Why do you determine that it is more than interesting entertainment?

Because the tests are subject to proper scientific protocols. Tell you what, get them to agree to a reiki test, and I'll write up the results for any suitable peer-reviewed journal you care to nominate.

I like it when you then jump on the backs of the people in that thread who showed interest in reiki.

It's true that I don't suffer fools gladly.

Oooh, I'm hurt.

Ask a reiki practitioner to make it better.

Your threads are out there for everyone to read and make up their own mind about.

No, my threads are for everyone to do as I tell them.
You are feeling sleepy... You will send me all your money... I can prove to you how this quackery works...

 

[Guest]

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I'd just silence all dissent,.
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Scary Kimpatsu... that is scary.


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It's not him who's on trial; it's the art of reiki.
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You are talking to HIM when you say "fraud" and "come prove yourself by taking the JREF challenge". You aren't talking to an entity named Reiki.


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I'll write up the results for any suitable peer-reviewed journal you care to nominate.
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Why? You know that JREF doesn't do that.


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You will send me all your money...
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I have a Ruby Red grapefruit drink. Will that do?

 

[Guest]

I have a Ruby Red grapefruit drink. Will that do?

You already owe it to me, remember?

 

[Kimpatsu]

Scary Kimpatsu... that is scary.

Good. Be afraid; be very afraid.

You are talking to HIM when you say "fraud" and "come prove yourself by taking the JREF challenge". You aren't talking to an entity named Reiki.

True, but he's taking money for this snake oil. That very definitely is fraud.

Why? You know that JREF doesn't do that.

It doesn't matter. I'm offering to do it.

I have a Ruby Red grapefruit drink. Will that do?

No. I also expect your firstborn child.