Red Lake School Shooting (sans MMoore)

[Kopji]

A troubling profile of the teenager who shot dead nine people emerged on Tuesday — one of a Native American who described himself as a "NativeNazi" and who other students said was regularly picked on for his odd behavior.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/

The school seems to have done many things 'right' and yet this still happened.

They had guards and a metal detector.

The student had been pulled from school and was in a special program.

He was taken care of by his grandfather, a police officer. His guardians were both killed to get access to weapons.

There are some similarities to Columbine here, and some differences.

Since he was a neo-nazi it is probably safe to suspend the usual Godwin's Law rules.

 

[KelvinG]

While this story is still very young, and new details will likely still emerge, this might just be a case where all the precautions in the world wouldn't have prevented this from happening.

 

[crimresearch]

Ahhh yes....the 'troubling' profile of a schoolyard shooter...one that holds an eery similarity to the lives of other schoolyard shooters...except for the startling differences.

And how could anyone have known this was going to happen?
Didn't they see the obvious and murky warning signs hidden behind the mask of normalcy that was clearly a cry for help from a troubled youth who on the surface seemed to be like every other violently normal teenager, but who deep down inside was really no different from you and me...a tragedy in the making.

 

[KelvinG]

Didn't they see the obvious and murky warning signs hidden behind the mask of normalcy that was clearly a cry for help from a troubled youth who on the surface seemed to be like every other violently normal teenager, but who deep down inside was really no different from you and me...a tragedy in the making.

They'll certainly see those warning signs now, if they didn't before.

 

[RussDill]

"When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were (are) evil and that Hitler was a very evil man, ect," wrote Todesengel, in a quote not corrected for spelling and grammar. "Of course, not for a second did I believe this. Upon reading up on his actions, the ideals and issues the German Third Reich adressed, I began to see how much of a lie had been painted about them. They truly were doing it for the better."

 

[Jocko]

What a stupid, pudgy little sack of idiocy. How freakin' moronic do you have to be to endorse, worship and kill in the name of a philosophy that would have put you first in line for the ovens?

I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, but do state authorities have any worthwhile jurisdiction on a reservation? It was my understanding that they're semi-autonomous culturally and legally. At least that's how they were in Arizona.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, but do state authorities have any worthwhile jurisdiction on a reservation? It was my understanding that they're semi-autonomous culturally and legally. At least that's how they were in Arizona.

It's complicated. I grew up on a reservation and I don't even understand when they have authority and when they don't. For example, I have seen state troopers bust people for growing pot on the reservation but I have a sister who managed to get an assault charge tried by a tribal court and the conviction can't follow her off of the reservation. I THINK it has to do with what rights are negotioated between the reservation and the state to go to which entity.

 

[a_unique_person]

What a stupid, pudgy little sack of idiocy. How freakin' moronic do you have to be to endorse, worship and kill in the name of a philosophy that would have put you first in line for the ovens?

I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, but do state authorities have any worthwhile jurisdiction on a reservation? It was my understanding that they're semi-autonomous culturally and legally. At least that's how they were in Arizona.

That's right, don't ask any questions. If you can blame someone, then the problem is solved.

 

[Jocko]

That's right, don't ask any questions. If you can blame someone, then the problem is solved.

If anyone here exemplifies that linear, unimaginitive thinking, AUP, it's you. You're just shooting another load because a reservation is sovereign land, so you get to blame the US after all as an outside influence, am I right?

You're a pathetic little hatemonger, and none too bright at that.

 

[a_unique_person]

If anyone here exemplifies that linear, unimaginitive thinking, AUP, it's you. You're just shooting another load because a reservation is sovereign land, so you get to blame the US after all as an outside influence, am I right?

You're a pathetic little hatemonger, and none too bright at that.

I'm not blaming the US at all, I think it is a genuine tragedy. Your response is to just blame someon, and leave it at that.

 

[LostAngeles]

I'm not blaming the US at all, I think it is a genuine tragedy. Your response is to just blame someon, and leave it at that.

Can the someone be the kid who loaded took the gun, shot his grandparents and then went to school and shot people "at random" rather than the liberals, the conservatives, the NRA, the gun makers and sellers, the video game companies, Hollywood, recording artists, Clinton, Bush, Michael Moore, and Charleton Heston? Can it?

Beacuse Sweet Holy Sh**, let's blame everyone except the people/person who did the action. Let's blame the culture. Let's blame the secularists. Let's blame the liberals and the Christian Right.

You know what happened? A disturbed kid for whom attempts were reportedly being made to help thought it was a good idea to kill the people trying to help him, his teachers, his classmates and himself. So he went and did it.

I'm sorry. Without some kind of magical protective nanny we can not prevent every single tragedy from occuring. There is no one source of these things aside from the fact that there are people who are f***ed. What are we going to do about that? Create a new system where if you deviate slightly, we ship you off? If you're an unhappy teen, we'll put you away so you won't off your peers?

We do our best and this time it failed ten+ people. That sucks. But hurling around blame and hunting for a specific reason this happened isn't going to fix this. It isn't going to undo this.

AUP, Jocko, I know wasn't particularly you that was hunting for blame, but the whole concept just set me off. Don't take it personally.

 

[Tmy]

I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, but do state authorities have any worthwhile jurisdiction on a reservation? It was my understanding that they're semi-autonomous culturally and legally. At least that's how they were in Arizona.

As I understand it, the tribe has authority over misdemeanors and the feds have say over felonies.

 

[Furious]

There are some similarities to Columbine here, and some differences.

About the only similarities with Columbine are a troubled kid using a gun to kill people at a school.

Columbine was a failed bombing attempt that would have killed something like 300 students had it worked. Thankfully the kids in that shooting sucked at bomb making.

I don't pretend to know a lot about the Red Lake case, but the two incidents are not remotely similar in intended scope.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/23/columbine/print.html

 

[a_unique_person]

I think that just blaming a kid (he was a teenager, with the body of an adult, and the mind of a child), for what is not an isolated incident is self defeating. These crimes are occurring across the country, in different locations and social groups. The question is, why? No one else is immune to such acts, eg, Germany had a similar incident not that long ago. Japan too. The US seems to be the place where they occur most commonly. The question is, why? I'm not saying any reason is readily apparent. The guns certainly make such homicidal acts easier to commit, but they are not the whole story. Just controlling access to guns (which I am in favour of), does not stop kids still getting these urges.

 

[CapelDodger]

What a stupid, pudgy little sack of idiocy. How freakin' moronic do you have to be to endorse, worship and kill in the name of a philosophy that would have put you first in line for the ovens?

It would be interesting to see just how Hitlerism was presented to him. He's quoted on "racial purity", not racial rankings, and that's different from Aryan supremacism. "Separate development" rather than extermination. This guy is clearly screwed-up, but that doesn't make him an idiot. Quite possibly he's intelligent but way down the blue-end of the autism spectrum.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

As I understand it, the tribe has authority over misdemeanors and the feds have say over felonies.

I don't think that's entirely true. My sister's assault charge was a felony and she was arrested by tribal police and tried in a tribal court. Neither the feds nor the state were involved.

 

[Kopji]

The thing that struck me on this is that a lot of things had been done that were probably implemented after Columbine.

He had been identified as a potential problem of some sort and had been removed for special tutoring.

The school had a metal detector and security guard.

The kid may have had easy access to weapons, but was willing to kill two guardians to get them.

The school seemed to have a good lockdown system in place. The deaths occurred in a single classroom. He was not able to access more classrooms.

We are a similarly rural area, and the schools here have a sort of instant lockdown system where each teacher becomes responsible for their classroom as a defensive cell. The system has worked several times, and is used if the police are chasing a suspect in the immediate vicinity of a school. This prevents hostage taking.

The schools also have a 'reverse 911' calling system, where masses of parents can be automatically contacted by phone and given instructions.

And still this kind of tragedy happens.

Arizona reservation law is pretty murky.
Tribal members living on the rez are under authority of the local tribal council. Bigger crimes are under authority of the BIA (a federal agency). The BIA is recognized as one of the few really corrupt agencies in the US. Some crimes fall under jurisdiction of the FBI.

Generally, if you were not a Native tribal member but committed a crime on the rez, you would be turned over to the county sheriff or federal government. Might be execptions (nod to N above).

With some exceptions, Rez life in the US usually compares unfavorably with third world countries. Think being poor, then being poor in Mexico.

Alcoholism and unemployment are usually high, gang and drug crime are often big problems.

Some tribes do exceptionally well though. The Apaches are very businesslike and do well, and the tribes of Arizona recently joined in a gaming pact that allows them to cooperate and return money to the state from casinos in a consistent way. So they are not entirely autonomous.

Tribal members are also members of the county in which they reside, but do not pay taxes on the rez.

 

[crimresearch]

Unless something has changed recently, it varies...some tribes do have federal police officers who are technically employees of the BIA, and write federal charges, other tribes don't, and may have police who work for the tribal council.

"Today, 203 tribes have tribal-BIA law enforcement services. Ninety-four tribes halve 638 contracts (46%), 36 have self-governance compacts (18%), 14 operate with strictly tribal funds (7%), and 59 tribes have BIA police (29%). At some locations tribes have contracted/compacted the uniformed police, whose authority is the enforcement of tribal laws. Additionally, many tribes supplement BIA funding with their own resources. Under Public Low 83-280 and similar enabling legislation, the remaining tribes rely on state and local law enforcement for major crimes. While the tribes have concurrent jurisdiction over minor crimes, they have little or no law enforcement to enforce that jurisdiction. "
http://www.senate.gov/~scia/1998hrgs/0603_kg.htm

 

[Tmy]

I don't think that's entirely true. My sister's assault charge was a felony and she was arrested by tribal police and tried in a tribal court. Neither the feds nor the state were involved.

I meant it as kinda a rule of thumb. If you ever looked into Indian law its the craziest most backward thing. They are soveirgn but they are not. The feds control then they dont. Its bizzaro world I tell ya!

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I meant it as kinda a rule of thumb. If you ever looked into Indian law its the craziest most backward thing. They are soveirgn but they are not. The feds control then they dont. Its bizzaro world I tell ya!

Yep. It is a complicated thing. But Crimresearch's post pretty much confirmed what I thought, that it varies by tribe. So what may be true on the reservation my family resides on may not be true for the reservation that the shooting took place on.