• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Recent lawsuit. Scientology.

Good article wasapi, be interesting to see how things turn out.

Look at that photo of David Miscavige with that huge welded on smile however. How could anyone doubt his words. :rolleyes:
 
wasapi said:
I came across this; https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...ficking-in-lawsuit/ar-AAD9hIc?ocid=spartandhp

While I am well aware of the money and power issue, I still wonder how they have gotten away with all of this over so many years. So many horror stories. They need to be gone.

Yeah, it goes beyond free speech and freedom of religion, and is simply criminal.
Click to expand...
They have an effective legal force to harass people with SLAP lawsuits, especially people who defect from higher up positions.
 
Thor 2 said:
Good article wasapi, be interesting to see how things turn out.

Look at that photo of David Miscavige with that huge welded on smile however. How could anyone doubt his words. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Oh, at first glance of his photo, I felt a visceral chill down my spine. Just simply scary.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
They have an effective legal force to harass people with SLAP lawsuits, especially people who defect from higher up positions.
Click to expand...

And their modus operandi is to ruthlessly and relentlessly attack, harass, intimidate and bad-mouth anyone who criticises Miscavage or his Cult (and Scientology is a Cult not a religion)

Their tactics include

  • Publishing lies and untruths about the target. (The USA's very weak libel/slander laws make it difficult for the target to fight back).
  • Attempting to frame targets for crimes they didn't commit.
  • Killing the target's pets.
  • Hiring private investigators to look for things the Cult can use against the target.
  • Attempting to get the target fired from his job or destroying the target's business
  • Never ending frivolous lawsuits.
  • Making obscene phone calls to the target and his family any time of the day or night.
  • Stalking and following the target, usually with a video camera.
  • Taking the target's trash (presumably to sort through it looking for something to use against them).
  • Death threats against the target and/or their family.

Essentially, their entire method is designed to make your life a living hell
 
Last edited:
smartcooky said:
[*]Taking the target's trash (presumably to sort through it looking for something to use against them).
Click to expand...


For free?! I imagine that's something you could also have a lot of fun with: Fake, misleading documents mixed in with particularly disgusting garbage: baby nappies, pet faeces etc.
 
I've had an antagonistic relationship w/ Scientology since the 90s (debating them in online newsgroups - remember those?). I dislike cults and organized religions in general.

I've watched Leah Remini's show and also HBO's Going Clear, and I don't think it had the effect they wanted. I gotta say I'm not as big on the "this **** needs to be burned down" mindset as I used to be.

With all these claims, I just can't see anywhere where they were actually forced against their will (except for the child aspect, but if they aren't protected by their parents/guardians then a lot of the blame falls on them). They all seem to have voluntarily chosen to stay in an abusive situation. That sucks, and there is definitely grooming that takes place, but at what point do you take responsibility for your own involvement?

Case in point - the guy on Remini's show - Mike Rinder - told of an experience where he was put in "Scientology jail" in St. Pete, FL. It sounded like some kind of gulag - long hard labor, sleeping on the floor, "re-education" sessions, etc - except for one thing: When he got sick of it (after about 3 months I think), HE WALKED OUT! Am I really supposed to feel bad for a guy who voluntarily stayed in an abusive situation because he thought doing so would give him magic powers? (that's why people do Scientology and go through the levels, they believe literal magic powers will be bestowed on them) Am I really supposed to cry for this guy?

If David Miscavige beats you up and you take no action (go to the police, get a restraining order, stop hanging around him, etc), I feel you share some of the blame as well as some of the blame when he abuses others.

The article from the OP says the girl had to escape in a car trunk, but doesn't say why or what the danger was. From Going Clear and Leah's show, there are many stories of people just walking out when they got sick of it. The biggest dangers that followed were being harassed by Scientologists and being shunned by family members that were still in it, but I couldn't find any sense of actual physical danger -which is something that people in other types of abusive relationships actually experience and have to contend with when they try to leave.

I'm starting to feel the whole thing is 20% abusive situation and 80% LARPing.

Although, it's been around long enough now that kids have been raised in it, and that's a huge problem. It should be looked into as any child abuse situation would, with no special pleading whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
Max_mang said:
Case in point - the guy on Remini's show - Mike Rinder - told of an experience where he was put in "Scientology jail" in St. Pete, FL. It sounded like some kind of gulag - long hard labor, sleeping on the floor, "re-education" sessions, etc - except for one thing: When he got sick of it (after about 3 months I think), HE WALKED OUT! Am I really supposed to feel bad for a guy who voluntarily stayed in an abusive situation because he thought doing so would give him magic powers? (that's why people do Scientology and go through the levels, they believe literal magic powers will be bestowed on them) Am I really supposed to cry for this guy?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, that in doing so, he has given up any hope of ever seeing his family again. Rinder hasn't been allowed to see or speak to his children in 12 years, and he is never likely to see them again, ever. The Cult forbids any contact.

Furthermore, the Cult has created websites in Rinder's name, claiming that he has never shown any interest in his children, that he was a wife beater. Here's just one of them

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/a...de-after-more-than-30-years-of-marriage.html#

(there are many like this but I don't want to link any more because I don't want to give this cult any more oxygen)

His family will have been thoroughly brainwashed to implicitly believe all the bad things the Cult of Scientology says about him.

If you are a member of the Cult of Scientology, you have to know that this is what you will have to face for the rest of your life if you leave and then speak about your experiences. Now its very easy for you to say he could have just walked out, but you need to understand that "just walking out" has very dire consequences.

Your approach seems to be a lot like those who argue that battered women can just walk out of a bad relationship... IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. Stark fear is what keeps battered women from leaving; fear of the consequences if the ex-partner comes looking for her and finds her; fear of what will happen if she gets caught trying to leave. The Cult of Scientology is very much like a vindictive partner who beats you up to keep you in line, and who comes after you if you leave, or try to leave. Just walking away is not as straightforward as you are trying to imply.
 
smartcooky said:
Keep in mind, that in doing so, he has given up any hope of ever seeing his family again. Rinder hasn't been allowed to see or speak to his children in 12 years, and he is never likely to see them again, ever. The Cult forbids any contact.

Furthermore, the Cult has created websites in Rinder's name, claiming that he has never shown any interest in his children, that he was a wife beater. Here's just one of them

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/a...de-after-more-than-30-years-of-marriage.html#

(there are many like this but I don't want to link any more because I don't want to give this cult any more oxygen)

His family will have been thoroughly brainwashed to implicitly believe all the bad things the Cult of Scientology says about him.

If you are a member of the Cult of Scientology, you have to know that this is what you will have to face for the rest of your life if you leave and then speak about your experiences. Now its very easy for you to say he could have just walked out, but you need to understand that "just walking out" has very dire consequences.

Your approach seems to be a lot like those who argue that battered women can just walk out of a bad relationship... IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. Stark fear is what keeps battered women from leaving; fear of the consequences if the ex-partner comes looking for her and finds her; fear of what will happen if she gets caught trying to leave. The Cult of Scientology is very much like a vindictive partner who beats you up to keep you in line, and who comes after you if you leave, or try to leave. Just walking away is not as straightforward as you are trying to imply.
Click to expand...

DO NOT put words in my mouth. I explicitly said in my last in my post "I couldn't find any sense of actual physical danger -which is something that people in other types of abusive relationships actually experience and have to contend with when they try to leave."

If family members decide to shun you for leaving an abusive relationship, that's still your choice to make. People under threat of physical violence have much less of a choice.
 
Max_mang said:
DO NOT put words in my mouth. I explicitly said in my last in my post "I couldn't find any sense of actual physical danger -which is something that people in other types of abusive relationships actually experience and have to contend with when they try to leave."

If family members decide to shun you for leaving an abusive relationship, that's still your choice to make. People under threat of physical violence have much less of a choice.
Click to expand...

Do you have children?
 
Max_mang said:
If David Miscavige beats you up and you take no action (go to the police, get a restraining order, stop hanging around him, etc), I feel you share some of the blame as well as some of the blame when he abuses others.
Click to expand...
"It's not my fault that I hit you, Bob. It's that guy over there. He made me do it. Why is he still hanging around? If he would just leave me alone I would stop hitting you!"


I've had an antagonistic relationship w/ Scientology since the 90s (debating them in online newsgroups -
Click to expand...
Ah, I understand now. You're that guy!
 
Roger Ramjets said:
"It's not my fault that I hit you, Bob. It's that guy over there. He made me do it. Why is he still hanging around? If he would just leave me alone I would stop hitting you!"


Ah, I understand now. You're that guy!
Click to expand...

Abusers are emboldened when they do not have consequences for their actions (such as the people they abuse leaving).

You understand what?
 
smartcooky said:
Do you have children?
Click to expand...


Brings to mind the Turpin case only relatively recently in the news.

Thirteen "children" (up to the age of 29) imprisoned by parents. One of the children escaped and contacted the police who found the house with the others living in squalid conditions. Seven of the children where legal adults - over 18 years old.

So what kept these unfortunates in that house? Common sense tells us that many opportunities must have presented themselves, for those confined to break out before this. Why didn't they?

Those who glibly ask the question - "why didn't you walk out?", to women in an abusive relationship, and others locked into a religious cult, should ponder this question.
 
Thor 2 said:
Brings to mind the Turpin case only relatively recently in the news.

Thirteen "children" (up to the age of 29) imprisoned by parents. One of the children escaped and contacted the police who found the house with the others living in squalid conditions. Seven of the children where legal adults - over 18 years old.

So what kept these unfortunates in that house? Common sense tells us that many opportunities must have presented themselves, for those confined to break out before this. Why didn't they?

Those who glibly ask the question - "why didn't you walk out?", to women in an abusive relationship, and others locked into a religious cult, should ponder this question.
Click to expand...

Comparing these types of stories of people thrown into situations involuntarily and groomed from young age to adults of sound mind pledging their allegiance to a crackpot cult offering magic powers (some, like Rinder, who rise through the ranks and actually work as someone who harasses the people who leave and then is shocked that he is harassed when he leaves) is incredibly irresponsible and just plain awful.
 
Max_mang said:
Comparing these types of stories of people thrown into situations involuntarily and groomed from young age to adults of sound mind pledging their allegiance to a crackpot cult offering magic powers (some, like Rinder, who rise through the ranks and actually work as someone who harasses the people who leave and then is shocked that he is harassed when he leaves) is incredibly irresponsible and just plain awful.
Click to expand...


Oh really? Must mend my ways.:(

I was just pointing out that people find themselves trapped in situations were there is no easy way out, so just suggesting they should take a walk, implying it's their fault for staying, is not fair.

There are many ways someone can find themselves in the trapped situation, and how they get there may have little relevance. More to the point is how tight are the bonds that bind them.
 
Thor 2 said:
Oh really? Must mend my ways.:(

I was just pointing out that people find themselves trapped in situations were there is no easy way out, so just suggesting they should take a walk, implying it's their fault for staying, is not fair.

There are many ways someone can find themselves in the trapped situation, and how they get there may have little relevance. More to the point is how tight are the bonds that bind them.
Click to expand...

Never said it wasn't tough, just said I'm not going to cry about it and don't see why anyone should outside of his own personal acquaintances. All choices have consequences. You and some other folks in this thread who keep comparing Rinder's situation to someone trying to actually survive an involuntary abusive situation/lifestyle are grossly out of line in my humble opinion. If you don't agree so be it.
 
Max_mang said:
Comparing these types of stories of people thrown into situations involuntarily and groomed from young age to adults of sound mind pledging their allegiance to a crackpot cult offering magic powers (some, like Rinder, who rise through the ranks and actually work as someone who harasses the people who leave and then is shocked that he is harassed when he leaves) is incredibly irresponsible and just plain awful.
Click to expand...

I've watched all the seasons and episodes so far. I have yet to see one where Rinder said or acted as if he was shocked that he was harassed. Quite the opposite in fact, he has said a few times that he knew what he would be in for - and THAT is what makes it so hard for the "woke" ones to leave.

I ask again.... do you have children?
 
Last edited:
smartcooky said:
I've watched all the seasons and episodes so far. I have yet to see one where Rinder said or acted as if he was shocked that he was harassed. Quite the opposite in fact, he has said a few times that he knew what he would be in for - and THAT is what makes it so hard for the "woke" ones to leave.

I ask again.... do you have children?
Click to expand...

I love the technique of picking out one little factoid to challenge while completely ignoring how you were called out for unfairly twisting my words.

I'm not going to answer your question because doing so would ruin the "gotcha" you're over-reaching for and that wouldn't be nice.
 
Max_mang said:
I love the technique of picking out one little factoid to challenge while completely ignoring how you were called out for unfairly twisting my words.
Click to expand...

If you don't want to be called on falsehoods, then its simple - don't post them. Do your research first, and make sure you actually know what you are talking about

Max_mang said:
I'm not going to answer your question because doing so would ruin the "gotcha" you're over-reaching for and that wouldn't be nice.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll answer it for you!

You don't have children. If you did, you would understand what an emotionally wrenching dilemma it is for someone trying to make a decision about leaving an abusive situation they were in, understanding that, in all likelihood, they would not only never see their children again, but also knowing that the abuser will do everything they can to turn their children against them.

If I'm wrong, and you do have children, and you don't have any understanding of the above, then I feel really sorry for them.
 
Max_mang said:
Comparing these types of stories of people thrown into situations involuntarily and groomed from young age to adults of sound mind pledging their allegiance to a crackpot cult offering magic powers (some, like Rinder, who rise through the ranks and actually work as someone who harasses the people who leave and then is shocked that he is harassed when he leaves) is incredibly irresponsible and just plain awful.
Click to expand...


Assumes facts not in evidence.

One might suggest that "pledging their allegiance to a crackpot cult offering magic powers" is evidence to the contrary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom