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Rebuilding New Orleans

King of the Americas

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Nov 15, 2001
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"No plan..."

...?

What?

So far, the Army Corp of Engineers have 'rebuilt' the levies to the pre-Katrina state.

And...?

The dominoes are back in place and ready for the finger of god to start the tumble, all over again.

WHY!?!?

Why are We funding the rebuilding of a failed city, IN THE SAME WAY IT ALREADY FAILED ONCE???

If we are going to rebuild a city, chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry, why not do it in a manner suitable for the environment in which it exists??? Wanna build a city under sea level? You'd better plan for canals instead of streets. Wanna build in the path of a huricanne? You'd better make sure the homes are wind & water resistant.

I almost wretched the other night, while watching Mayor Ray Nagin, knock on a levy wall and say, "This is solid, where's this gonna go?", as he stood below several feet of sea behind a 'rebuilt' levy wall.

I mean, it was as if he learned NOTHING from Katrina.

*NEWSFLASH* New Orleans levies were built to withstand no more than a weak catagory 3 huricanne. If a strong 3 or catagory 4 or 5 hits, the city is a wash again.

Mayor Nagin, you have NO PROTECTION from a catagory 4 or 5 huricanne!!!

---

(*Deep breath...roll your neck, crack your nuckles, and exhale...)

The time has come for Perma-Green Homes...some new kind of building and fabrication process that delivers a weather/disaster proof home built to withstand super winds & rain, AND be able to function 'off the grid' for short periods of time. Throw modern home designs out the window, and think 'green'...solar cells and wind turbine powered...

Homes should be a refuge during inclimential periods, not a hazard.

Build no more new homes without doing so up to a far more superior code.

And I am not talking 'federal standards', but rather locally decided state mandated ones, instituted by people who know what kinds of hazards potential builders in their area will face.

The answer to this problem is NOT merely inexpensive travel trailors passed out by the dozen, for 18 month periods.

Our government is crap...
 
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King of the Americas said:
"No plan..."

...?

What?

So far, the Army Corp of Engineers have 'rebuilt' the levies to the pre-Katrina state.

And...?

The dominoes are back in place and ready for the finger of god to start the tumble, all over again.

WHY!?!?
Click to expand...

It's called, "staying the course."
 
Best there is, except for all the other ones...

Valedictorian of Summer School, what an accomplishment.

So for coastal regions, I am invisioning a dome shaped, cement coated structure with no straight edges to catch wind, and it would have to be water proof, with an escape hatch out the top, or an extendable snorkle for severe flooding. This is perfectly within our ability, just not our will.

First you pour your cement foundation, atop sand, ultimately supported by several cement pillars sunk 10-30 feet, depending on the size of your structure which will be 'round' in shape.

Then you place a hardy inflatable balloon to cover the cement pad, and overlay a steel or carbon fiber mesh over the balloon, then adding a layer rebar.

The next step is to inflat the balloon to desired building height and pour a cement or grafite hardening shell over the top. WAAA-Laaaa

Weather proof dome for 3-4 quick and easy.

Details of doors and windows are easily 'cut out' of the meshes you apply, and frames can be inlaid easily during the pour.

Cover the sun side with solar cells, and erect a little wind turbine on each one, and you've got a Perma-Green Home.

Perminate & Self Sufficient, run from the weather no more.

Why are we thinking like this???

Why do we build such vulnerable stuff where it doesn't belong???
 
King of the Americas said:
Best there is, except for all the other ones...

Valedictorian of Summer School, what an accomplishment.

So for coastal regions, I am invisioning a dome shaped, cement coated structure with no straight edges to catch wind, and it would have to be water proof, with an escape hatch out the top, or an extendable snorkle for severe flooding. This is perfectly within our ability, just not our will.

First you pour your cement foundation, atop sand, ultimately supported by several cement pillars sunk 10-30 feet, depending on the size of your structure which will be 'round' in shape.

Then you place a hardy inflatable balloon to cover the cement pad, and overlay a steel or carbon fiber mesh over the balloon, then adding a layer rebar.

The next step is to inflat the balloon to desired building height and pour a cement or grafite hardening shell over the top. WAAA-Laaaa

Weather proof dome for 3-4 quick and easy.

Details of doors and windows are easily 'cut out' of the meshes you apply, and frames can be inlaid easily during the pour.

Cover the sun side with solar cells, and erect a little wind turbine on each one, and you've got a Perma-Green Home.

Perminate & Self Sufficient, run from the weather no more.

Why are we thinking like this???

Why do we build such vulnerable stuff where it doesn't belong???
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How about these? Steel reinforced concrete geodesic domes. They can take damage that would flatten a normal home. They are also relatively inexpensive and energy efficient and the outer shell can be put up in a day.

The catch being the dimensions of the building is highly dependant on the maximum diameter of the dome. If you have a small or irregularly sized parcel of land, they might not be the best choice.
 
That's close...but I invision something with much less framing...

And MY design would be even stronger than that design, along with being super water resistant. Depending on the kind of surface treatment you'd apply to the surface, my domes could quite literally be permanate.

I saw someone building just such a structure a LONG time ago, but I can't recall the name of the individual or company doing it, nor have I been able to locate them.

I am not sure people are ready to live in domes...
 
Has there been any comparison of New Orleans post desruction vs. Fargo Red River destruction a few years back. Seems like similar problems. Everyone would be flooded out every few years. I think theyfinally moved people out of that Red river flood plane. My guess is that the govt bought out those people.
 
Ever EVERY there was a case to be made for imminate domain, I don't know of one.

New Orleans NEEDS to be completely rebuilt, using a very different technique or plan. The city is BELOW sea level...rebuilding a failed levy to no 'better' standards seems more than foolish and wasteful to me, espeically considering that building codes within that 'below sea level' area haven't changed one bit.

I hate reruns...
 
I think that Bush can do a lot more to move things toward a long term solution. He could task the Army engineers in a specific direction and smooth over the tendency toward doing nothing, or making only 'safe' decisions.

If Dutch engineers say they could solve this problem for $10 billion, that claim should either be debunked or embraced as a solution. The 'not invented here' mindset could be overcome with decisive leadership that Bush could provide.
U.S. engineers are impressed by the Dutch system, but so far, bureaucratic sluggishness has slowed reconstruction. Much of the contentious debate over rebuilding the city has centered on what to do about the lowest-lying areas, including the hard-hit Lower Ninth Ward. Early cost estimates made it seem that whole sections of the city would have to be abandoned. But Hans Vrijling, a renowned authority on flood control who designed part of the Dutch system, says it should be possible to protect New Orleans—even low-lying sections—from storm surges more than 10 times Katrina's. The price tag: less than $10 billion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14535074/site/newsweek/
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"If EVER there was a case to be made for eminent domain, I don't know of a better one."

Sorry bout that...I meant to go back and edit that whole response, but the clock timed me out...

*WHY can't we learn from others who do a better job than us???

Hiring Dutch consultants seems like the FIRST no-brainer step to take...
 
I saw two hours of the Spike Lee "documentary" on New Orleans and Katrina. Missed the second half.

What a cluster(Rule8) the whole situation was and is.

Two things that stuck out for me. Someone made a point that within days of the WTC falling, there was a mile(s?) long convoy of trucks on the scene hauling away the debris. What a sight that was, wasn't it?

Months after Katrina? Nothing.

The second damned good point they made was that all that oil that being taken out of the Gulf right off Lousiana's shore. You know how much LA gets out of it?

Nothing. Because it comes from more than three miles off the coast.

Texas gets a huge chunk of money from oil. So does Alaska. LA gets nada. And it shows.
 
Also, I might as well confess it here.

I don't know why. I can't explain it, because I used to hate that sonofabitch with a passion, but for some reason, in the last couple of years, I've been kind of liking Al Sharpton.

There. Said it. A goddammed vast right-wing conspiracy nutjob likes Al Sharpton.

I mention it because he was in the documentary.
 
I KNOW Katrina showed the soft underbelly of the Federal Emergency Response Capability Team, but that was what happened yesterday and still today.

What I'd like to talk about is 'tomorrow'.

How and what do we build so that tomorrow when another similiar storm rolls in, people's homes get washed under and away.

The title of this thread IS "REBUILDING NEW ORLEANS"...so how about it.

How likely is it for Mayor Ray Nagin to trade streets for canals?

I saw condemn the city, under eminent domain, redesign it from the sea level up, and build the first disaster-proof American city. Able to withstand catagory 5 huricannes, and or be completely evacuated in under a day.
 
This topic has been interesting to me, I even started a thread on it awhile ago.

What I thought was required was the immediate formation of a regional planning commision to develop a comprehensive plan for New Orleans and the delta.

This disaster was different than most others in the US in that the simple idea of just allowing people to get back in and start rebuilding was probably not a good idea. An overall decision needed to be made about what land would be recovered and what wouldn't, how much money would eventually be spent on dikes and how much protection that would afford to the inhabitants, what canals would be filled in or fitted with storm surge doors, how much delta recaliming was to be done and how much benefit that would create, how was insurance going to be made available to the residents, what could be done about the sinking land from all the drainage canals, should raised homes be required in some areas, should other areas be returned to nature to allow for natural recharging of the ground water as a means of stopping the land from sinking, etc.

Many of these things required input and decisions from the federal government so that the federal government needed to play an integral role in the planning for a new New Orleans.

Perhaps a lot of what I listed above is being addressed. I haven't seen any articles that suggest that this is so. I have seen complaining that New Orleans is on its third 100 day attempt to come up with a plan. Perhaps this means that a real attempt to address some of these issues is under way. My own sense of it is that Bushco doesn't have the insight to understand that this is a time where visionary federal involvement is required and as such all the planning that is going on is hindered significantly because of inadequate federal support. But I might be allowing my biases to control my thinking on that.

Clearly Bushco has been willing to throw massive amounts of federal money at New Orleans, unfortunately some of it went to its no-bid cronies and more of it seems to have been lost down a rat hole. So at a time when a part of our country desperately needs federal skillfull federal support our country is led by Bushco, an administration not known for competence or vision.

ETA: I meant to mention an article I read about an architect that was involved in rebuilding parts of New Orleans. It was his view that the city needed to seriously consider preventing rebuidling in some areas, using the land for green spaces and relying on higher density housing in the higher areas of the city. I don't know that anybody is listening to people like that but it was nice to see that there was somebody thinking about the long term issues of New Orleans.
 
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Rebuilding in an area destined to be under water is foolish to say the very least.

The entire city of New Orleans should undergo a total make-over, from the shoes to the hat.

If 'I' were Mayor of that town the LAST thing I would do is allow people to re-settle the flood plain, while keeping all the building codes exactly the same.

To me, this is all about building with proper expectations. If you live in a cold environment, maybe you should consider adding insulation to the walls. If you live in a hot zone, maybe spending a few extra bucks on the air-conditioning system would be a good idea. And if you live in a hurricane zone, MAYBE you should consider building a shelter that will resist wind, rain and flooding???

Call me crazy, but this just makes sense to me...
 
Where is the money going to come from?

Why not from the oil in the Gulf of Mexico off their coast?

I believe New Orleans is consulting the Netherlands on their levee system. So plans are in the works to build a whole new type levee system. I think what the Corps of Engineers has in place now is a temporary system to prepare for this year's hurricane season, and not intended to be permanent.
 
The visit by the Ambassador is the latest step in the cooperation between the Netherlands and the United States since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. The Ministry of Transport, Public Works and Water have a memorandum of agreement with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to share information on water issues. Soon after Katrina hit, the Dutch government sent water management experts and mobile water pumps to New Orleans to de-water the city. Ambassador Van Eenennaam will host Senator Landrieu and a bipartisan delegation of federal, state and local US officials to the Netherlands. The delegation will meet with Dutch officials in the government, non-profit and private sectors, as well as water management and environmental experts.
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Secondly, there is the economic dimension. Rebuilding this region will cost money, a lot of money. But it will be an investment that will yield good returns. I admire Senator Landrieu for passionately making the point that the Gulf Coast contributes substantially to the overall economy of the United States. And that reconstruction of this region is key to the local economy and also to the economic health of the rest of this mighty country.
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Netherlands Embassy web site.
 
At present, New Orleans' levy system hasbeen 'patched' to its pre-Katrina levels, and 'some' homeowners are re-building in the flood zone as we speak.

Cutting the Mississippi into managable levies has caused the surrounding area to sink...this will continue to be the case until the wetlands are restored.

Building a better, or vastly improving the levy system isn't going to solve the overlying problem of building below sea level. Existing below sea level depends to heavily on pump systems to evacuate water from simple rainfall. Overtopping by a hurricane is an even greater problem.

I would have called the Dutch to help us fix the holes in the present levy, but I doubt I'd have planned to simply upgrade the levy system and allowed people to re-populate the flood plain.

New Orleans is in need of a new building direction or strategy, period.

Only to revisit my original notion, when are we going to develope a 'hurricane home building' technique? Woodened framed houses with nice square sides and almost flat rooves are NOT the best homes to put in hurricanes harms' way...
 
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