Really intelligent talking parrot, "N'Kisi"

[Zeuzzz]

I just listened to this parrot called N'KISI, after looking at a webpage about him at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N'kisi) and the conversation it has is amazing. I thought it was fake when I read the transcript, until I actually listened to the clip, but you can tell its a parott when you hear it. Its not exactly a fluent conversation, but I never thought that any animal could communicate this well with humans.

If you ignore the fact that its on Rupert Shelldrakes website (he's been trying to use this parrot to prove that all animals are 'telepathic' ) I think its very interesting. You can download the audio and listen to it if you have real player at the following link, I suggest following the transcript as you listen.

http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/nkisi1_text.html

Aimee is teaching N'kisi the concept of pushing buttons to achieve specific results, using as a teaching aid a musical toy with buttons in various shapes that says that shape (square, star, triangle, circle) or makes sounds (dog, cat) when those particular buttons are pushed. Aimee's ongoing research has documented that N'kisi understands the concept of pushing buttons to produce various effects. This excerpt also includes an example of N'kisi's creative wordplay, substituting the name of his favorite singer (Madonna) in the children's song "Old Macdonald".

The conversation goes like this;

Aimee: Ok, ya ready? (Aimee pushes button, toy says 'square' and makes music.)

N'Kisi: (Enthusiastic tone) That's so cool!

Aimee: Isn't it?

N'Kisi: Can ya hear(music is playing)There's a square.

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Lemme try (? illegible). Look, there's a square!

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Can you see that?

Aimee: Yeah!

N'Kisi: Look!

Aimee: Isn't it cool?

N'Kisi: (sound). Lemme (? illegible) the turquoise. (referentiality unknown; toy has many colors on it.) Wow, there's a square.

(Aimee pushes button again, toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Lemme write there's a little square. (Aimee pushes button again.) Old Madonna, E-I-O quack quack quack, here a quack there; there a quack, there a quack. Lemme show you. Look at the square. (Aimee holds toy up to cage so that N'Kisi can push the buttons. N'Kisi selects the 'square' button (out of several possible buttons) and pushes it; toy says 'square'.)

N'Kisi: Listen!

Aimee: Isn't that cool?

(N'Kisi pushes button again, toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: List...

Aimee: Wow!

(Aimee pushes the button; toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Wow! there's a me...

Aimee: You like that?

N'Kisi: There's a square.

Aimee: Yeah.

N'Kisi: Can ya hear (makes cat-like mew sound)

Aimee: Ya wanna hear the kitty? Listen.

(Aimee pushes other button on toy; it makes meow sound and mewing music.)

N'Kisi: (laughter.)

Aimee: (laughter)

N'Kisi: That's so cool!

Aimee: Isn't it?

N'Kisi: Could push the button.

Aimee: Yeah.

N'Kisi: You could try-angle. (word play, due to grammatical context)

Aimee: OK. (Aimee pushes another button, toy says 'triangle'.) See? (pushes it again, 'triangle').

N'Kisi: Look at the square.

(Aimee pushes the button that says 'square'.)

N'Kisi: There's a square.

Aimee: Yeah. (Aimee pushes it again; toy says 'square'.)

N'Kisi: Star.

Aimee: OK. (Aimee pushes another button on toy, it says 'star'.)

N'Kisi: Sta... (whistle).

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'star'.)

N'Kisi: You pushed the button.

Aimee: I did, I pushed it!




To me this seems like a conversation you might have with a small child learning to speak, certainly not with an animal . I have heard that this parrot has gained a lot of attention due to its abilities, the BBC did an article on it here; Parrot's oratory stuns scientists

The finding of a parrot with an almost unparalleled power to communicate with people has brought scientists up short. The bird, a captive African grey called N'kisi, has a vocabulary of 950 words, and shows signs of a sense of humour.

He invents his own words and phrases if he is confronted with novel ideas with which his existing repertoire cannot cope - just as a human child would do.[....]

He uses words in context, with past, present and future tenses, and is often inventive. One N'kisi-ism was "flied" for "flew", and another "pretty smell medicine" to describe the aromatherapy oils used by his owner, an artist based in New York.

When he first met Dr Jane Goodall, the renowned chimpanzee expert, after seeing her in a picture with apes, N'kisi said: "Got a chimp?" He appears to fancy himself as a humourist. When another parrot hung upside down from its perch, he commented: "You got to put this bird on the camera." Dr Goodall says N'kisi's verbal fireworks are an "outstanding example of interspecies communication". [.....]

Is there a scientific explanation for this behaviour? Anyone know the brain to body ratio of parrots? I'm presuming its higher than most animals. I would like to know if people think that this is just an exceptionally talented communicating parrot, or if all parrots are this clever but just cant communicate it to us. It certainly surprised me.

 

[sophia8]

Here's the Skeptics Dictionary entry on N'Kisi
And here's a language expert's view on one of the claims.
My view? If the parrot's speech is so unclear that you need to follow the text of the transcript while listening to the audio, then it's likely that you have an aural version of paraeidolia; you're hearing what you're being primed to hear.

ETA: I listened to the audio - colour me unimpressed. It was hard to make out which one was the parrot and which one the human - there was too much background noise. Also, there seemed to be some sort of echo effect in the recording; several times, a single word from the human was repeated a second later at a lower sound-level, but at the exact same pitch.
I couldn't make out anything that the parrot (allegedly) said, aprt from repetitions of "square" and "star". Is this really the best evidence they can muster from hundreds of hours of recordings?

 

[Zeuzzz]

Here's the Skeptics Dictionary entry on N'Kisi
And here's a language expert's view on one of the claims.

Thanks for the links. Oh god, here we go; A rebuttal to Skeptic

And that linguistics guy seems to be more just angry at the BBC including shelldrakes views on telepathy, and misrepresenting speech comprehention with a knowledge of 1000 words. He's certainly not saying that this is a scam, and says he admires the Parrots abilities and finds it interesting. He just takes issue with the BBC article, which is understandable considering they do actually include the telepathy claim without mentioning how speculative this is. Ignore the telepathy crap, I'm just interested in the speech.

My view? If the parrot's speech is so unclear that you need to follow the text of the transcript while listening to the audio, then it's likely that you have an aural version of paraeidolia; you're hearing what you're being primed to hear.

You dont have to read it as you listen, it just helps catching everything. Most of it is said surprisingly clearly for a parrot I thought. I think thats why this one has attracted so much attention, his oratory skills are considered unrivalled.

It was hard to make out which one was the parrot and which one the human

So the parrots pretty good then

Also, there seemed to be some sort of echo effect in the recording; several times, a single word from the human was repeated a second later at a lower sound-level, but at the exact same pitch.

Thats why they call them Parrots

I couldn't make out anything that the parrot (allegedly) said, aprt from repetitions of "square" and "star". Is this really the best evidence they can muster from hundreds of hours of recordings?

I dont know, I suspect theres more recordings if you wanted to listen. I'll have a look around, the BBC published a series of stories on this, I'll try to find them. They also say that theres another Parrot called Alex that has been studied in more detail recently by various scientists that has the same abilities.

 

[sophia8]

What do I make of the BBC article? Well, I have strong objections to the title: Parrot's oratory stuns scientists. Which scientists?
This is the only actual scientist quoted:

Professor Donald Broom, of the University of Cambridge's School of Veterinary Medicine, said: "The more we look at the cognitive abilities of animals, the more advanced they appear, and the biggest leap of all has been with parrots."

Where is he saying that he is "stunned" by this particular parrot?
Also, what's been happening with this story since 2004? Has the parrot stopped talking, or what? Where are the tapes (video as well as auditory) clearly showing that N'Kisi can actually hold a conversation? Why isn't this bird on TV demonstrating its extraordinary talent?
I suspect I know the answers to those questions - do you?

 

[e-sabbath]

Sadly, Alex has passed on.

 

[CFLarsen]

Aimee: Ok, ya ready? (Aimee pushes button, toy says 'square' and makes music.)

N'Kisi: (Enthusiastic tone) That's so cool!

Aimee: Isn't it?

Aimee is merely reacting to N'Kisi's reaction to the music.

N'Kisi: Can ya hear(music is playing)There's a square.

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Lemme try (? illegible). Look, there's a square!

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: Can you see that?

"Hear", "see" and "look" means the same to N'Kisi.

Aimee: Yeah!

N'Kisi: Look!

Aimee: Isn't it cool?

See what happens again? Aimee is making it sound as if there is a conversation going on - but she is reacting to the parrot.

N'Kisi: (sound). Lemme (? illegible) the turquoise. (referentiality unknown; toy has many colors on it.) Wow, there's a square.

(Aimee pushes button again, toy says 'square')

Aimee is reacting to what N'Kisi says. It's the parrot who has trained the human, not the other way around.

N'Kisi: Lemme write there's a little square.

"Lemme write"? Again, that doesn't sound as if the parrot understands what that means.

(Aimee pushes button again.) Old Madonna, E-I-O quack quack quack, here a quack there; there a quack, there a quack. Lemme show you. Look at the square. (Aimee holds toy up to cage so that N'Kisi can push the buttons. N'Kisi selects the 'square' button (out of several possible buttons) and pushes it; toy says 'square'.)

So the parrot has learned to recognize a square? Big deal.

N'Kisi: Listen!

Aimee: Isn't that cool?

(N'Kisi pushes button again, toy says 'square')

N'Kisi: List...

Aimee: Wow!

(Aimee pushes the button; toy says 'square')

Again, it is Aimee who reacts to the parrot.

N'Kisi: Wow! there's a me...

Aimee: You like that?

This is exactly what John Edward and James van Praagh say, when they say "Do you understand?": They create a sentiment of understanding and acceptance.

N'Kisi: There's a square.

Aimee: Yeah.

N'Kisi: Can ya hear (makes cat-like mew sound)

Aimee: Ya wanna hear the kitty? Listen.

(Aimee pushes other button on toy; it makes meow sound and mewing music.)

Again, Aimee reacts to the parrot, not the other way around.

N'Kisi: (laughter.)

Aimee: (laughter)

I had no idea that parrots could laugh....

N'Kisi: That's so cool!

Aimee: Isn't it?

N'Kisi: Could push the button.

Aimee: Yeah.

Again, Aimee reacts to the parrot, not the other way around.

N'Kisi: You could try-angle. (word play, due to grammatical context)

Aimee: OK. (Aimee pushes another button, toy says 'triangle'.) See? (pushes it again, 'triangle').

Again, Aimee reacts to the parrot, not the other way around.

N'Kisi: Look at the square.

(Aimee pushes the button that says 'square'.)

N'Kisi: There's a square.

Aimee: Yeah. (Aimee pushes it again; toy says 'square'.)

Again, Aimee reacts to the parrot, not the other way around.

N'Kisi: Star.

Aimee: OK. (Aimee pushes another button on toy, it says 'star'.)

N'Kisi: Sta... (whistle).

(Aimee pushes button again; toy says 'star'.)

N'Kisi: You pushed the button.

Aimee: I did, I pushed it!

Again, Aimee reacts to the parrot, not the other way around.

The transcript makes it easy to analyze what is happening. Not impressive.

 

[Delvo]

I thought that the fact that parrots can learn words' meanings and use them to interact with humans, far better than this seems to show, was old news. It was years ago that I saw a video (with perfectly clear image and audio leaving no doubt about anything) of a parrot answering questions about the toys on a tray which required him/her to count and to distinguish colors and shapes. For example, when asked how many blue cubes there were, (s)he would isolate the green things, isolate the blue cubes from the blue trucks and sponges and such, and give the correct number in answer. And when shown a tray of blue toys with one green truck and asked which one was green or what type the green one was, he'd answer "Truck".

I think the numbers were always less than five, and the trainers had to limit the vocabulary of their questions to a sort of pidgin speech, and I don't recall the bird ever constructing sentences itself instead of just one or two nouns or adjectives at a time, but it was still more impressive than this, and it was years ago.

 

[Zeuzzz]

Aimee is merely reacting to N'Kisi's reaction to the music.

"Hear", "see" and "look" means the same to N'Kisi.

See what happens again? Aimee is making it sound as if there is a conversation going on - but she is reacting to the parrot. [......]

thanks for the lengthy analysis of the conversation (Or rather "conversation") I'll have another look at it in detail when I've the time. Maybe the parrot was more reacting than actually thinking. But still, its a pretty damn intelligent bird to be using that many words and roughly coherently.

 

[paximperium]

thanks for the lengthy analysis of the conversation (Or rather "conversation") I'll have another look at it in detail when I've the time. Maybe the parrot was more reacting than actually thinking. But still, its a pretty damn intelligent bird to be using that many words and roughly coherently.

That's not in contention. Parakeets and parrots are very intelligent birds.

 

[CFLarsen]

thanks for the lengthy analysis of the conversation (Or rather "conversation") I'll have another look at it in detail when I've the time. Maybe the parrot was more reacting than actually thinking. But still, its a pretty damn intelligent bird to be using that many words and roughly coherently.

No, no: It isn't words N'Kisi is putting together: It is different words put together that it understands as one sound. When it says that sound, it gets a reaction.

If it can't tell the difference between "hear", "see", "look" and "write", it doesn't understand the meaning of the words it is saying.

And if it doesn't understand the meaning of the words, it certainly can't understand syntax.

 

[Lithrael]

I think the numbers were always less than five, and the trainers had to limit the vocabulary of their questions to a sort of pidgin speech, and I don't recall the bird ever constructing sentences itself instead of just one or two nouns or adjectives at a time, but it was still more impressive than this, and it was years ago.

Yeah, that was Alex. He was pretty darn cool IIRC he was basically famous for being a great illustration that parrots are capable of using language (to express simple reasoning and such) as opposed to purely 'parroting' it.

Of course it was still all reward based and he got bored easily, but it was very clear that he could be trained to understand and actually answer these simple questions.

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Interesting to note that it's captive-bred.

I wonder if there's any sort of artificial selection going on in African Grey Parrots; like only the ones that display a really interesting approximation of human language get bred.

 

[Zeuzzz]

I see now. I was paying too much attention to the comments that shelldrake added in and his interpretation of why the bird was saying it. If you remove his comments from the above 'conversation' it becomes far more prosaic. Indeed, the bird doesn't actually understand most of whats being said, its mainly based on rewards and the womans reaction to what it says. A few of them do make you wonder though, I mean theres certainly more going on than simple repeating, but I suppose its a very hard thing to prove either way.

Either that or its a magic parrot. I go with the latter. Much more fun.

And does anyone know the EQ of parrots? I suspect its quite high, probably just under dolphins

 

[Cuddles]

There have been many discussions about this sort of thing in the past. As I recall, the general conclusion is pretty much what Claus has said - they can recognise sounds that get a reaction, but it relies very much on interpretation by the human to see any real meaning, and it is very clear that many, if not most, words are not understood at all, even if some of them may be.

There is no argument that some animals have limited intelligence, but being able to recognise small numbers and differentiate between colours is not in the same league as holding a conversation. Parrots can do the former, which should come as no surprise since this is the sort of thing they must do in the wild, but there is no evidence they can genuinely understand and participate in human speech. Dogs, cats, dolphins and apes, among others, are clearly far more intelligent than parrots, they just tend to look less impressive because they can't mimic our sounds.

A useful thing to consider here is the Turing test. Even passing this does not necessarily imply intelligence, and there is no question that the transcript in this thread would not come close to passing the test.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

This instance seems just like the parrot randomly saying stuff and the responder turning it into what sounds like a conversation by what she says in reply.

I think this is a totally different instance to the late great Alex who was trained in a specific way and tested on what discriminations he could make and apply labels too. Irene Pfefferberg did have a tendency to over interpret some of his more sponaneous vocalisations, but I don't think you can argue with the fact he knew the meanings of the words he had been trained in.

 

[Moochie]

I had no idea that parrots could laugh....

Some years ago we took visiting relatives to one of those roadside zoos that are popular in parts of Australia. There was a large cage with parrots that are native to the country -- we see parrots quite often, even in suburban Melbourne -- and we stopped to have a look.

Another person laughed at the parrots' antics, and one parrot in particular mimicked the laughter almost exactly. This started me laughing, which in turn got the parrot mimicking my laughter, which in turn made me laugh all the more. Pretty soon my sides were aching from the laughter, and I had to deliberately calm down. It was hysterical!

I don't think I could have one of these fine animals for a pet -- the laughter would kill me.

Parrots are excellent mimics. Aimee is clearly off her perch.


M.