• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Real Magic

Navigator

Philosopher
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
7,324
Real Magic

I mentioned recently that there was no such thing as ‘real’ magic. I thought about this more and have decided that what I was alluding to was that there was no such thing as real magic in relation to magicians.

Probably the best example of Real Magic I can think of which is worthy of the title, would be the advent of this Physical Universe, which is essentially something that is absolutely everything and came from absolutely nothing – the essence of True Magic.

That being the main advent, what came from it may hold within it signs of Real Magic, but the tricks of magicians cannot be numbered among those things, although I would definitely say that the existence of magicians (and everyone else) is Real Magic.

I think of the advent of the Earth and subsequent happenings upon it as Real Magic.

The following happened to me which I consider Real Magic.

I was looking at the internet one day and looked up how to do card tricks, which of course lead me to find card tricks which were really amazing.
One particular one caught my attention.
From memory the trick involved someone picking a card, looking at it and placing it back in the deck.
The deck changed from blue to red and only one card remained blue and that was the card the person had picked.
I think there may have been more to the trick but that is what I remember and I really thought it was a good trick and then the guy proceeded to explain how the trick was done. Which of course was what I was on the net to research – ‘how to do’...

So he then shows the first part and then in a puff of smoke he is in hell dealing with the devil and having to perform in order to make a deal, then the devil gives him the red deck with the blue card in it and in another puff of smoke, the magician is back – apparently not even missed – and completes his trick, and that folks, is how the trick is done!

I thought this was hilarious.

A short time after this, I went travelling and was in a bar with my friend and I got onto the subject of magic – and told him about this video I had watched on youtube.
We were both laughing hard about it when this teenager came up to us and asked us if we wanted to see a magic trick.

Now I recognised the teenager as someone who had come into the bar about ten minutes earlier with an older couple – perhaps his parents – and to explain the situation briefly, I was visiting a very small town perhaps only about 100 permanent residents, many of whom worked in larger towns nearby, so strangers are noticed right away, and these were obviously visitors stopping by and having a drink and a look.

So here is this teenager with a deck of cards standing before us.
Quite likely he might have caught snippets of our conversation although he and his companions were not standing too near us, but for whatever reason, he approached us and pulled out a pack of cards and started interacting with us and asked us if we would like to see a magic trick.

We laughed, and agreed he could if he wanted to.

He then proceeded to show the very trick that I had just been telling my friend about.

As the trick was being done we just laughed and laughed, and at the end we told him we knew exactly how he had done that trick and we laughed some more.

His companions then came up to him and said they were leaving, we thanked him for doing the trick and he left.

Now the Real Magic was that event, the whole unfolding circumstance, and that was what we were laughing about. It was an absolute joy to be a part of. From out of the blue appeared this teenager with his wonderful trick (which of course we didn’t really ‘know’ how it was done) and as if on cue, performed the very trick we had been talking about.

EDIT: I will add that the teenage magician was not aware he was part of this Real Magic event. No doubt had he and his companions stayed around we would have told him our story and his lovely part in it.

Such incidences happen very frequently for me and they are simply not able to be ignored.

What makes these even more amazing as part of Real Magic is that for me, I relate them to the original Real Magic, from where all subsequent Real Magic comes from.

Truly, who needs magic tricks when the Real World is so full of wonderful and Real Magic?

Well obviously, a lot of people do.

http://www.learntarot.com/bigjpgs/maj01.jpg

Can you think of other types of Real Magic?
 
Last edited:
I think I follow what you're saying, and other than your comment about the universe and something coming from nothing being incorrect (there was technically never nothing, but you'd need a real physicist to explain it, and I'm no physicist), I can agree in principle.

In essence, it is the same response given countless times to believers who accuse skeptics of finding no wonder or mystery around them. The truth is, we do. I suspect it is actually more mystery and wonder than the believers find; it is certainly more real.

All that said, this probably belongs more in the Religion and Philosophy thread as opposed to the Conjuror's Corner.
 
I agree with Garrette that this is the wrong forum for this discussion. This forum is for talking about conjuring, which is creating the illusion of supernatural effects with natural methods. The OP is insinuating that something else may be in play, which is off-topic here
 
I think I follow what you're saying, and other than your comment about the universe and something coming from nothing being incorrect (there was technically never nothing, but you'd need a real physicist to explain it, and I'm no physicist), I can agree in principle.

In essence, it is the same response given countless times to believers who accuse skeptics of finding no wonder or mystery around them. The truth is, we do. I suspect it is actually more mystery and wonder than the believers find; it is certainly more real.

All that said, this probably belongs more in the Religion and Philosophy thread as opposed to the Conjuror's Corner.

Yes I think Garrette that as you say, the Universe didn’t happen out of nothing, but there was an inert ‘something’ from which it evolved into – material or potential material was there for it to come forth from.
But in principle, that there was no mindful process – no mind directing the process and yet, look what is now to be seen due to that mindless process – Real Magic.

I actually picked up the phrase from reading some of the posts in this forum and perhaps when people say ‘real magic’ they are maybe comparing one magician to another and saying in effect that one is doing ‘real’ magic while the other is not, as a way of making the comparison rather than as a literal thing – as in there is actual real magic happening in relation to magicians..

So the phrase got me thinking about what is ‘real magic’ really, and I think anything which has design and mind behind its creation can’t be considered real magic, and since the Universe didn’t, this event itself could be seen as Real Magic, and other events coming from that event may be identified the same.

‘Skeptics’ vrs ‘Believers’ though, I don’t quite understand the reference in regard to Real Magic.

If anything, it may have something to do with some sceptics and some believers who are consistently involved in some kind argument which is more focused on how we got here rather than the fact that we are here and discussing and agreeing as to what are we each and all doing about it.

I am pretty certain though that not all those calling themselves one or the other are in fact involved in arguing about it.

Apart from that, I don’t see the connection. I didn’t mention either in the OP.

So I am not sure this is philosophical so much as just identifying ‘what real magic’ is and how wonderful it is as well.

Like that example I gave of coinciding events which couldn’t have been written any better had a mind been behind it.
 
I agree with Garrette that this is the wrong forum for this discussion. This forum is for talking about conjuring, which is creating the illusion of supernatural effects with natural methods. The OP is insinuating that something else may be in play, which is off-topic here

That is an interesting expression AdMan, which fits very well with assertions I have been making about magicians actually supporting wooism.

"This forum is for talking about conjuring, which is creating the illusion of supernatural effects with natural methods. "

Another word for illusion is insinuating. Magicians insinuate supernatural effects, and there is no such thing as supernatural anyway, which is why it is insinuated.
Unfortunately, such insinuation does more to encourage wooism than help stop it.

The 'insinuating' you speak of in the OP - well what is being insinuated you do not mention.
 
Last edited:
...So he then shows the first part and then in a puff of smoke he is in hell dealing with the devil and having to perform in order to make a deal, then the devil gives him the red deck with the blue card in it and in another puff of smoke, the magician is back – apparently not even missed – and completes his trick, and that folks, is how the trick is done!

...

As the trick was being done we just laughed and laughed, and at the end we told him we knew exactly how he had done that trick and we laughed some more.
Are you suggesting that you think the teenager did the trick by being sucked into hell and bargaining with the devil for a new deck?
 
A possible way the trick could have been done...

Materials:

- One trick red deck containing 52 copies of the same card.
- One ordinary blue deck.
- Optional: One regular red deck that can be used to demonstrate to the audience that it's an ordinary deck of cards before using slight of hand to switch it with the trick deck.

Method:

- Place one card from red deck into blue deck
- Conceal blue deck in your clothing
- Ask the volunteer to pick a card memorize it and return it to the deck.
- Using slight of hand, switch the red deck with the blue deck.
- Reveal that the deck has magically transformed into blue... except for a single card.
- Ask volunteer if the remaining red card is the card they picked earlier.
 
Last edited:
Are you suggesting that you think the teenager did the trick by being sucked into hell and bargaining with the devil for a new deck?

Not at all - I got the joke and so did my friend - the joke being that the magician showing how the trick was done was not saying that he actually did a deal with a devil...so he didn't really give any instruction on how he actually really did the trick...he was spoofing...

As I said, when we told the teenager that we 'knew how he did the trick' we didn't really know - we were just involved in the serendipity/synchronicity of the moment (he performing the exact same trick) and laughing about that...and would have told him our story had he and his companions stayed around, and I am sure he would have laughed along and perhaps even appreciated his part in this real magic of that unfolding event, since he nor we had anything to do with any prior Conscious 'setting up' of said subsequent events.
 
Not at all - I got the joke and so did my friend - the joke being that the magician showing how the trick was done was not saying that he actually did a deal with a devil...so he didn't really give any instruction on how he actually really did the trick...he was spoofing...

As I said, when we told the teenager that we 'knew how he did the trick' we didn't really know - we were just involved in the serendipity/synchronicity of the moment (he performing the exact same trick) and laughing about that...and would have told him our story had he and his companions stayed around, and I am sure he would have laughed along and perhaps even appreciated his part in this real magic of that unfolding event, since he nor we had anything to do with any prior Conscious 'setting up' of said subsequent events.
Okay... so where's the magic here, then?
 
I'm gonna guess that your memory of the effect is a little off, and what you saw was a standard dealer item known to just about every magician on the planet - one that's been exposed countless times on YouTube and performed by every teenager who ever visited a magic shop. To paraphrase H.L. Mencken, heave an egg out of a Pullman window, and you will hit a guy performing the Brainwave Deck almost
anywhere in the world today. :)
 
Last edited:
I'm gonna guess that your memory of the effect is a little off, and what you saw was a standard dealer item known to just about every magician on the planet - one that's been exposed countless times on YouTube and performed by every teenager who ever visited a magic shop. To paraphrase H.L. Mencken, heave an egg out of a Pullman window, and you will hit a guy performing the Brainwave Deck almost
anywhere in the world today. :)

Ohhh.... I've never heard of that one before. (Looking up the Wikipedia page there's lots of kinds of trick decks I've never heard of. I only knew about forcing decks and marked cards.)
 
Okay... so where's the magic here, then?

As far as I can tell, guys in a bar laugh at a teenager because of an inside joke, and it was wonderful! Magic!

Don't see how it's any more magic than the fun that everyone has, at different times.

Edited to add: Like JoeBentley says, I don't see the point of such stories, in the context they're presented. Sure, people say they have "magical evenings" or talk about the "magic of a child's smile," but they usually understand that's a different use of the word "magic" than "I saw David Copperfield perform a magic trick."
 
Last edited:
Navigator, I think you are conflating different meanings of the word "magic".

The OED states:

1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces:suddenly, as if by magic, the doors start to open
2. mysterious tricks, such as making things disappear and reappear, performed as entertainment: [as modifier]:his parents bought him a magic set for Christmas
3. a quality of being beautiful and delightful in a way that seems remote from daily life:the magic of the theatre
4. informal exceptional skill or talent:he’s been working his magic on New Zealand movies for the past two decades

The universe didn't come from nothing, and needed no paranormal input to bring it into being. We don't yet know how everything happened at t=0, but scientists are continuing to investigate and as they do so, they refine our understanding of the universe. Our current understanding of the 'laws' of physics break down close to t=0, but that does not mean that something magical happened, rather it means that our understanding of physics is not yet complete.

Lots of people, myself included, describe the process of the beginning of the universe, the incredible size of it and the amazing things found (and not yet found) in it as "magical", but not using the word to imply anything either paranormal or forever beyond our understanding. Rather, the word is used to connote the awe and amazement that we feel at the billions of tiny, undirected happenings which were all necessary to end up with what we have now. Definition 3 above is the way the word is being used in this sense, and it doesn't imply the "paranormal" or deception on which definitions 1 and 2 are based.
 
Okay... so where's the magic here, then?


I think the "magic" being referred to is the seeming wonderfulness of the universe in general and funny coincidences in particular. The "magic" is something that surprises you but which has a mundane explanation that you just aren't privy to.

Or I'm completely misreading the OP.
 
Definition 3 above is the way the word is being used in this sense, and it doesn't imply the "paranormal" or deception on which definitions 1 and 2 are based.

I think that was what I was eluding to in the OP Agatha.

That is why I placed the word 'real' in quotation marks.

I understand there really is no such thing as real magic. All magic is fake.

The story I shared had a 'magical' appearance due to the interesting way it actually unfolded.

Truly, I would doubt very much that if or when Scientists find the evidence which can explain the process by which the Universe unfolded from the moment of whatever that event was which started the whole process, that it will appear less 'magical' for the fact that there is an explanation.
 
Last edited:
I know many powerful and amazing magical spells.
I'd demonstrate, if only my mana bar weren't at zero. ;)
 

Back
Top Bottom