Randi to test psychic Chris Robinson

WWu777

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Subj: [TheProving] FW: Evidence Randi has already PRE-JUDGED Chris Robinson re proposed testing!!
Date: 3/7/2004 3:10:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: sgrenard@si.rr.com (Steve Grenard)
Reply-to: theproving@yahoogroups.com
To: theproving@yahoogroups.com




a message from Randi to Victor Zammit

[Steve Grenard]
-----Original Message-----
From: victor zammit [mailto:victorzammit@optushome.com.au]
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 5:32 PM
To: everyone
Subject: RE: Evidence Randi has already PRE-JUDGED Chris Robinson re proposed testing!!


Dear Ang

Could I ask you to contact Chris Robinson to ask him withdraw from the tests where he invited Randi, Wiseman and French to participate? This is because I (and others) warned him, he’s going to be set up to fail. In response to my email to Chris, Randi sent me this email below to-day. Now notice how Randi has already PRE-JUDGED Chris when he told me in an email (see below), inter alia:

“it's quite possible that Robinson actually believes he has these abilities, and he may be inclined to accept our challenge for that reason. …You may find this difficult to believe, but there are honest people out there who are merely self-deluded.”

AND THIS HAS BEEN STATED BEFORE THE TESTS HAVE STARTED!!!!!

Of course, there is also what psychologists call ‘projection’ when Randi talks about his rubbish offer of $1m being merely ‘self-deluded.’

One would need the IQ of this year’s inflation rate to understand what I told Chris: “KEEP AWAY FROM THEM!” And, “… and anyone in their position with their track record will be motivated to do ANYTHING - LYING, CHEATING ETC to save his ass.”

Allowing Randi, Wiseman and French to test Chris is just like asking three Wizards of the Ku Klux Clan to find some negro in Alabama innocent of a crime.

A very well established principle in Law & Equity: NO ONE IS TO BE A JUDGE IN HIS OWN CAUSE.

Victor Zammit

From James Randi,

Mr. Zammit: I pored over your recent tirade -- reproduced below -- and though your juvenile style of writing makes it pretty difficult to figure out what you're trying to say, I think the bottom line is that you greatly fear Chris Robinson's acceptance of a test for the million dollar prize. Though not for the reasons that you seem to outline, you may have a good point. Actually undergoing a legitimate test is the one things that so-called psychics should avoid.

However, it's quite possible that Robinson actually believes he has these abilities, and he may be inclined to accept our challenge for that reason. You may find this difficult to believe, but there are honest people out there who are merely self-deluded.

In any case, it appears that Mr. Robinson will be properly and fairly tested despite your frantic attempts to get him to withdraw. I respect him for that. I'm sure that you will not give up your frantic efforts to avoid having a proper test done, of course.

James Randi


To: 'Christopher C. French'; 'keith hearne'
Cc: 'Chris Robinson'; 'Richard Wiseman'; 'James Randi'
Subject: RE: Chris Robinson experiment with Dr Keith Hearne (fwd)

Victor,

Well, Victor French Wiseman and Randi and co are it would seem keen to do an experiment........

Wisemans idea of just one judge seems typical......... I would say let the viewers judge but at least a jury of 12 impartial observers not connected to scicop...

Chris

Hi Chris,

You know what I stated to you before - keep away from these debunking, closed minded skeptics - keep away from the Trojan horse trap. They are professional tricksters - be warned!!

Their definitive track record shows they are hardened debunkers and any your proven psi experiments will make them look absolutely stupid - they would likely to become the greatest joke in the history of psychic phenomena - and anyone in their position with their track record will be motivated to do ANYTHING - LYING, CHEATING ETC to save his ass. There is also the inevitable huge problem - the experimenter's effect I mentioned before.

My advice: KEEP AWAY FROM THEM - PICK ON SOME HIGHLY CREDIBLE, NON-ALIGNED EMPIRICISTS.

Victor
====================================================================
A LAWYER PRESENTS THE EVIDENCE FOR THE AFTERLIFE www.victorzammit.com
We, psychic investigators, will pursue any avenue, we will follow every legitimate lead, we will question, research, reason, investigate all forms of energy, probe into phenomena hitherto unexamined or unexplained, explore and examine anything, anywhere, anytime to discover the truth – because truth - not faith will save us.
====================================================================================
 
Good for him for accepting the test. As you may know, fakers invariably seek to avoid testing, since they know they cannot pass such tests, as a real psychic easily could pass them.

I look forward to further details when the test is complete.
 
Yes, I would certainly avoid a chance at winning a million dollars because I thought somebody was going to "trick" me!!
 
WWu777 said:
Now notice how Randi has already PRE-JUDGED Chris when he told me in an email (see below), inter alia:
Click to expand...
I don't suppose anyone pointed out that while Randi may have his own personal beliefs about certain applicants, he doesn't judge the actual challenge itself? All protocols, including judge(s), are agreed upon before hand by both Randi and the applicant.

One could just as easily say that Chris Robinson PRE-JUDGED that he will win the challenge. So what?
 
Winston, didn't I tell you only a few days ago that accepting what Victor Zammit says as valid and truthful is bad for your own mental health? You are clinging to the ramblings of a nutcase, quite frankly, and making yourself look just as silly as a result.

You may care to note that Victor has also "warned off" Sylvia Browne from attempting the JREF $1M challenge for exactly the same reasons as he has stated above. And she has - read all about it here on JREF. So doesn't that start to say something to you? Like Victor Zammit is utterly genuinely scared of REAL GENUINE emprical testing being done on his "heroes of the afterlife" brigade. Because if they DID get tested it would cause him to (a) look VERY silly if real science shows one of his heroes is properly debunked, and (b) all his arguments about the afterlife will lose credibility as a result. You know the term "one white crow", don't you...

Make no mistake about it - Victor Zammit is a man possessed...by some really quite insane ideas about science and the afterlife. If you think Michael Jackson hasn't a good grip on reality, Victor is well beyond that stage. He's nuttier than a fruitcake, so do you really want to keep peddling his wares? Or haven't you got an original thought in your head that Victor didn't put there?

I have no idea if Mr Robinson can do what he says he can do. But there's only one way to find out - impartial unbiased independent scientific testing. Which is what the JREF testing is all about really, not the $1M. And he has agreed (so far) to proceed with such testing - good for him! He will be allowed to state his claim, help design the tests so he knows they are fair for him and show unambiguous results, and be treated with the utmost respect and honesty. Why would you object to that?
 
Re: Re: Randi to test psychic Chris Robinson

Upchurch said:
I don't suppose anyone pointed out that while Randi may have his own personal beliefs about certain applicants, he doesn't judge the actual challenge itself?
Click to expand...
Or that the tests are designed to have an objective outcome, so no judging actually takes place?

The applicant defines what they can do.
Then they try to do it.

Either they do it or they don't. No judging required.
 
I was at a talk by a 'believer in a range of paranormal phenomena' fairly recently and Zammit's name came up. "Some friends are best kept at arm's length", was the individual's comment IIRC.

Is that Steve Grenard's email address I see posted at the top there, Winston? If so, I trust Steve doesn't mind having his addy posted on the forum?
 
It's obvious: Winston doesn't have any real clue about the paranormal that he isn't parroting from Victor Zammit. Sad, really.
 
Zep said:
It's obvious: Winston doesn't have any real clue about the paranormal that he isn't parroting from Victor Zammit. Sad, really.
Click to expand...
Be fair. He parrots John Benneth too.

Rolfe.
 
these words posted in the OP are very interesting. i was highly interested in his inclusive use of We. i thought it was interesting that psychic investagators have unlocked the secret mystery of this multi-cultural waste-land. i was hiighly uplifted by the previous negative assertion and resolved to do something good later today to help others. i take doing good things for others very seriously.

i was interested in gaining circularity of thinking by using the left hand in all of my writings. i figured out my ambidextrous nature through practicing eating with my left hand, which led to many various wonderful creative experiences by achieving equivalent balance between mind utilization. i learned that i was a testosterone-fueled idiot and that women controlled me utterly and should be respected to the ut-most. i recognized that the truest moral answer to any question lied with a child's answer. i researched the Pharoah and realized that my IQ was astounding low and i had never read or heard anything from the body that types that i had paid attention to, besides my own selfish whim and mis-direction of evolutionary evolved verbal t hought that i should have discarded long ago, or alternatively, listened to to discover exactly what i should do that is healthy for my body.

i was stupid. i am gaining intelligence via my arrogance expressed via Internet word. i learned that i was a stupid word-idiot that was continuously controlled by this body that types via the wonders of mathematics. i recognized that white people need to learn that that light relativity makes them unrythmic, while being more logical. i recognized that black people were more in-focus with rhyming and in their minds, white is right, because they are naturally slightly more inclined towards use of the Right-Mind and therefore, while not being "less evolved", were more spontaneous and less thought-oriented. i recognized i was a racist pig and stupidly arrogant, to an extent that i lost my inhibitions, even those for attachment to the conceptual-Individual.

as a result, i felt massive pain and shame for any time i ever told someone suicidal that they should live, due to their recognizance of my own idiotic mis-understanding of morality. i recognized that my mother is a beautiful woman and i should have listened to everything she said, assuming she was not a bitch and not obviously influenced by a testosterone-fueled idiot father/husband. w3rd to your mother.
 
Rolfe said:
Be fair. He parrots John Benneth too.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...
Quite true, actually. AND I forgot about him parroting bits of Dean Radin's book, and Schwartz's inspiring research, and all the other woo-woos out there. But never any original thinking or a even a skerrick of understanding and response.
 
Pyrrho said:
Answer has been banned.
Click to expand...

For...?

Suggestion: When someone are banned, the reason should be given. That way, we prevent rumors from distorting the facts. I am thinking here of people claiming to be banned because they had opposing views, when, in fact, they were banned for e.g. flooding the board with porn.
 
CFLarsen said:
For...?

Suggestion: When someone are banned, the reason should be given. That way, we prevent rumors from distorting the facts. I am thinking here of people claiming to be banned because they had opposing views, when, in fact, they were banned for e.g. flooding the board with porn.
Click to expand...
Rather than continuing the derailment of this thread, I posted my explanation in the "MAD" area. Read his last post. The JREF cannot host that kind of material.
 
Looks to me like Zammit and the other woo-woos are already making excuses if/when Chris fails the test. These idiots actually think that Randi actually sets up the challenge to simply make all claimants fail, that Randi cheats against the claimants. They have no evidence of this, but hey.. they have no evidence for their other beliefs as well. This is just more evidence that believers have closed off the real world in favor of their beliefs.
 
Now all we need is for someone who claims that thier "projection" can influence events to try for the 1 million dollar prize.

If "projection" can derail psychic phenomenon, said "projection" inteference should be easily duplicated in a double-blind.
 
corplinx said:
Now all we need is for someone who claims that thier "projection" can influence events to try for the 1 million dollar prize.

If "projection" can derail psychic phenomenon, said "projection" inteference should be easily duplicated in a double-blind.
Click to expand...

Ah, but you fail to consider: the tester's negative projection power will work against the negative projection power being used, meaning that the original negative projection will be completely cancelled by the meta-negative projection not being tested. Its the double-negative that makes me positive.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Looks to me like Zammit and the other woo-woos are already making excuses if/when Chris fails the test. These idiots actually think that Randi actually sets up the challenge to simply make all claimants fail, that Randi cheats against the claimants. They have no evidence of this, but hey.. they have no evidence for their other beliefs as well. This is just more evidence that believers have closed off the real world in favor of their beliefs.
Click to expand...

But otherwise they'd have to conclude the claiments can't do what they said they could do.
 
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