radiation is good for you!

[andyandy]

Just watched the BBC program Horizon....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5173310.stm

The anniversary of the world's worst nuclear accident in April saw the publication of a number of reports that examined the potential death toll resulting from exposure to radiation from Chernobyl.

Environmental group Greenpeace said the figure would be near 100,000. Another, Torch (The Other Report on Chernobyl), predicted an extra 30,000-60,000 cancer deaths across Europe.
Yet in a BBC Horizon report to be screened on Thursday, a number of scientists argue that 20 years after the accident there is no credible scientific evidence that any of these predications are coming true.

But according to figures from the Chernobyl Forum, an international organisation of scientific bodies including a number of UN agencies, deaths directly attributable to radiation from Chernobyl currently stand at 56 - less than the weekly death toll on Britain's roads.

"When people hear of radiation they think of the atomic bomb and they think of thousands of deaths, and they think the Chernobyl reactor accident was equivalent to the atomic bombing in Japan which is absolutely untrue," says Dr Mike Repacholi, a radiation scientist working at the World Health Organization (WHO).

They go further to suggest that low level radiation might even be positive (acting like a vacination against cancer....) although this appears to be a minority view....

but if the threat to human health from nuclear plant meltdown is so much lower than initially projected, then why is this myth so prevalent in society?

"Low doses of radiation are a [very] poor carcinogen," says Professor Brooks, who has spent 30 years studying the link between radiation and cancer.

"If you talk to anybody and you say the word radiation, immediately you get a fear response. That fear response has caused people to do things that are scientifically unfounded."

do we all suffer from radiaphobia?

 

[Bronze Dog]

do we all suffer from radiaphobia?

I think it has something to do with its imperceptibility: You can't see, hear, or smell radiation. Combine that with the fact that it can (and often does, in Hollywood) kill people as well as inflict some nasty slow-killing effects in high doses, and you've got a very real boogey-man-type fear.

One example that comes to mind for me: I have a healthy fear of fire. I have an even worse fear of electrocution. (If you're stranded on the road and I come to help, please don't make me handle the jumper cables.)

I can see fire. I can feel the heat it generates. I can smell the chemicals it produces. If I get touched by it, I can do something about it.

I can't visually tell the difference between a live wire and a cold one without some good clues. I can't hear or smell electricity. If I get electrocuted, it's usually too late to do something about it.

Much of what I can say about electricity applies to radiation. So naturally, there's some part of my reptilian brain that screams like a little girl when it comes to those subjects.

 

[Ziggurat]

They go further to suggest that low level radiation might even be positive (acting like a vacination against cancer....) although this appears to be a minority view....

"Vaccine" isn't the right analogy. The suspected mechanism is more akin to how a little bit of dirt and germs seems to help exercise your immune system, so you're less likely to get sick or develop allergies. A little bit of radiation damage may help kick the repair mechanisms into action, which may provide a net benefit at low doses.

but if the threat to human health from nuclear plant meltdown is so much lower than initially projected, then why is this myth so prevalent in society?

1) We can't sense radiation, so it's got that whole "hidden danger" thing going for it, as BronzeDog mentioned.
2) People are very bad at evaluating relative risks when those risks are small.

do we all suffer from radiaphobia?

Not ALL of us, but it's pretty common.

 

[Ziggurat]

I can't visually tell the difference between a live wire and a cold one without some good clues. I can't hear or smell electricity. If I get electrocuted, it's usually too late to do something about it.

Here's a trick I learned from my brother, who claims to be able to estimate voltages from the feel of the shock: if you need to touch something that might possibly be live, touch it with the back of your hand first. The muscles which clench your fist and curl your arm are stronger than the muscles that extend your fingers and straighten your arm, so if these contract impulsively from any shock, you'll pull away and break the connection automatically, rather than push onto the live wire and have to wait for your brain to register and pull your whole body away.

 

[RationalVetMed]

Here's a trick I learned from my brother, who claims to be able to estimate voltages from the feel of the shock: if you need to touch something that might possibly be live, touch it with the back of your hand first. The muscles which clench your fist and curl your arm are stronger than the muscles that extend your fingers and straighten your arm, so if these contract impulsively from any shock, you'll pull away and break the connection automatically, rather than push onto the live wire and have to wait for your brain to register and pull your whole body away.

... and then three days later your arm drops off - what was the point of this post?

Yuri

 

[Ziggurat]

... and then three days later your arm drops off - what was the point of this post?

I was trying to give helpful advice. I'm not sure why you're referring to arms droppinging off three days later, since that's not the kind of damage electricity does to a person. If this was supposed to be a joke, I'm sorry but I don't get it. So what was the point of your post?

 

[andyandy]

Maybe it's due to stuff like this - a 2002 BBC headline

Sellafield 'increases cancer risk'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2054694.stm

Children of men exposed to radiation while working at the Sellafield nuclear plant have twice the normal risk of developing certain types of cancer, research suggests.

scary stuff....shall I get my picket sign out?

Oh wait,

Only 13 children of Sellafield workers contracted leukaemia over the 41 years.

And because workers now receive much lower doses than in the past, there are unlikely to be implications for the current workforce.

The research was part-funded by the Westlakes Research Institute, which is sponsored by British Nuclear Fuels (BNFL).

Paul Thomas, BNFL health director, said: "This study is very reassuring for our workforce and confirms that the excess risk of leukaemia and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, particularly in Seascale, can be largely attributed to population mixing."

so in 40 years of operation, there's only been 6 or 7 cases above what would normally be expected....and that is for the highest risk group - ie. the workers at the plant and their offspring. And today, workers are thought to not even be exposed to this level of risk....

wow....even the daily wail agrees

There is no evidence that children living near nuclear power stations in Britain are at greater risk of cancer, according to a report out today.

In its 10th report on the issue, the Committee on Medical Aspects of Radiation in the Environment (COMARE) concluded that it did not find excess numbers of childhood cancers within 25km of any nuclear power station.

The report did find an increased number of some types of childhood cancer near other nuclear installations - such as those manufacturing nuclear weapons, reprocessing waste or research units.

But these were similar results as found in past studies showing slight increases in cancers near some sites, although are there no clear evidence of a causal link.

The large study included over 32,000 cases of childhood cancer diagnosed in Britain between 1969 and 1993.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ily.html?in_article_id=351838&in_page_id=1799

and if the mail can't get a scare story out of it, then it must be safe

 

[Soapy Sam]

Ziggurat. Your brother's trick also works in a fire. If trapped in a burning building, always feel metal doors with the back of the hand. You may need the front later.

 

[kevin]

so if these contract impulsively from any shock, you'll pull away and break the connection automatically, rather than push onto the live wire and have to wait for your brain to register and pull your whole body away.

and to totally derail a thread: electrical current can cause your muscles to contract (and no amount of brain registering can overcome it) so if you don't use the back of your hand the current can cause your hand to contract on the wire and be unable to release at all.

Slightly back on topic: people know how to avoid electricity -- don't touch the wires. but radiation is that invisible death ray, the perception is that there isn't something they can do to avoid the problem.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

I think part of the problem is that people don't experience any radiation on a regular basis, that is, it's not a regular thing, unlike say, electricity or fire. If you work with radiation, then it just becomes a thing to work with, rather than something to worry about. Once you have a bit better understanding you realise that it's not quite so unstoppable as is sometimes made out.

Oh, and while we're on the subject, I've found something cool:

http://www.bindt.org/PCN/

My number is 300212

 

[Ziggurat]

Ziggurat. Your brother's trick also works in a fire. If trapped in a burning building, always feel metal doors with the back of the hand. You may need the front later.

Good point. Another thing to do with potentially hot surfaces is to touch and quickly pull away. The nerves that transmit pain from heat send their signals significantly slower than the nerves that transmit the sense of touch. If the surface is hot enough to burn you, you'll actually feel the burn after you've already pulled away, but if you wait until you feel the burn before pulling away, you may end up with a significantly worse burn. If you don't believe me, try experimenting with the surface of a metal tea kettle that's been brought to a boil.