Rabbi Gellman: Why are atheists so angry?

slingblade

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Trying to Understand Angry Atheists
Why do nonbelievers seem to be threatened by the idea of God?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498143/site/newsweek/

All religions must teach a way to discipline our animal urges, to overcome racism and materialism, selfishness and arrogance and the sinful oppression of the most vulnerable and the most innocent among us.
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Yeah...let me know when they all plan to get on that, mmmkay?

I can humbly ask whether my atheist brothers and sisters really believe that their lives are better, richer and more hopeful by clinging to Camus's existential despair: “The purpose of life is that it ends."
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Odd. I can't say I've even read that, much less that I cling to it.
I tend to cling to something more like: "The purpose of life is that it is now. Right now. What are you doing with it?"

I believe that the philosopher-rabbi Mordecai Kaplan was right when he said, “It is hell to live without hope, and religion saves people from hell.” I urge my atheist brothers and sisters to see things as Spinoza urged, sub specie aeternitatis—“under the perspective of eternity.”
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I'm thinking that what I do during a period of 70-some-odd years should affect eternity in about the same proportion as an eye-dropper full of red dye should affect the Pacific Ocean. I'm also thinking this is a ridiculous standard for a God to maintain.

Okay, pithy comments of mine aside, I found all the Rabbi's assumptions, excluded middles, false dichotomies, and other fallacies and distortions quite interesting.

I have to laugh, however, as I find after reading this that I'm a little honked off at being so carelessly assumed to be an angry atheist by virtue of simply being an atheist. And isn't that ironic?

Hey, Rabbi: I think your commentary pretty much answered your own question, but I am positive you can't and won't see it.
 
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I have never encountered more anger than with people of supernatural beliefs.
 
Angry atheist?!

ANGRY ATHEIST?!?

I'll show him angry atheist!!! *shakes fist*
 
Mmmm.. So perhaps someone will write a quiet and reasoned rebuttal for the gentleman? And disabuse him of some of his misconceptions? And I don't think there's any need to rise to the bait about "anger" either.
 
Zep said:
Mmmm.. So perhaps someone will write a quiet and reasoned rebuttal for the gentleman? And disabuse him of some of his misconceptions? And I don't think there's any need to rise to the bait about "anger" either.
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What's the point? It's just one big straw man, and I find it completely offensive.

He labels atheists angry by default, and states we all cling to "existential despair".

Why is it that these "vicious Jews" cling on to their Bibles to justify beating their wives?
 
Nettles said:
I hope somebody's going to rush to reassure me that this was a quote or irony or something.
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Yes.

I did the same as the Rabbi. Jews are no more vicious than atheists are angry.
 
When people are arguing about something, everyone generally considers their opponents to be 'angry'. They're not necessarily lying to make themselves look better, it's simply that because you generally see more of the angry side of people you are in conflict with.

CFLarsen said:
I have never encountered more anger than with people of supernatural beliefs.
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Like this.
 
I can humbly ask whether my atheist brothers and sisters really believe that their lives are better, richer and more hopeful by clinging to Camus's existential despair: “The purpose of life is that it ends."
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Not that you're angry, dude, but why do you care?

~~ Paul
 
Sounds a bit like our new friend Jeff Corken doesn't it? Just not as inflammatory. It seems like he's trying to take the high road while at the same time saying basically what Jeff says, namely, religion teaches to do "good" things for each other while atheism logically just "lets" you do whatever you want.


"I don't know many religious folk who wake up thinking of new ways to aggravate atheists"

Really? Perhaps he should get to know more "religious folk".
 
I have encountered many an angry atheist on this board.

I have encountered many an angry theist on this board.

It's a harsh generalization on both accounts here.
 
This is a classic example of extending one's perception of a small subset of a group to a large portion (or all elements) of that group. Everybody does that, but it is misguided...
 
Before I send this, I would appreciate any feedback and proofreading...

An open letter to Rabbi Gellman

Dear sir,

I read with some interest, and some amusement, your web commentary of April 26, about the “angry atheists”. As a long-time atheist myself, I have a very different perspective than you do on this issue. Indeed, I was surprised from the very beginning of your commentary, from the title itself: are these “angry atheists” people you know personally, or are they your projection of what you feel atheists must be like? If the latter, please understand that your argument is with a straw man; if the former, please allow me to tell you about an atheist I know fairly well. Me.

I am not angry. I think it would amuse anyone who knows me to think that such an adjective could ever be attached to me. I have debated with people, but civilly, thoughtfully, with respect for their views. When I search myself for the anger and the existential angst you say atheists cling to, I do not find it. What do I find instead?

I find love. Not some imitation of a god’s love, but real love for my friends, my family, my fellow human beings. I am thankful, not to a god for giving me these people, but to these people themselves for what they are to me, and what they allow me to be to them.

I find joy. I cherish life, knowing that this one life is all I get. The atheists I know (they must be very different people from the atheists you know) view life as precious, not as a waiting-ground for the real, eternal life to come. Camus’ “the purpose of life is that it ends” speaks only to one meaning of the word “purpose”. There is no higher purpose to which life is subsidiary; the purpose of life is to live. To make the world a better place, not because a god tells us to (and not all do), but because we care about our friends, our children, their children and theirs.

I find compassion. True, I did not pray for the victims of 9-11 or Katrina. I did not ask a god to do something that is my job to do. I donated money, I donated time, I donated blood. The name “anonymous” is not quite Camus, but the quote “two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer” speaks every bit as much to an atheist’s world view.

I find sorrow. Those who have died have not gone on to a better place; they are simply gone. They live on only metaphorically, in our memories; for that reason, our memories of their lives are all the more precious. An acquaintance of mine believed that the murdered children of Andrea Yates were “better off now, with God.” To me, this only diminishes the very real tragedy, and allows us to distance ourselves from the overwhelming sadness that the senseless death of innocent children does, and should, elicit.

I suppose, when I think of cases like that, that I do find anger in myself as well. But it is anger directed toward the perpetrators of these acts, not directed at some god I do not even think exists. I can hold no more anger toward your god, Rabbi Gellman, than you would hold toward Zeus. The very idea of atheists being angry at a god is, on the face of it, ludicrous.

I would have hoped that your meeting with Dr. Watson would have prompted some changes in your essay. You consistently write about “atheists” rather than about “some atheists”, or “those atheists who are indeed angry”. You speak of atheists globally as “angry”, and yet the one concrete example you give proves this global statement wrong. I invite you to get to know more atheists; you will find that there are few, if any, adjectives that can be used to describe us all. Indeed, the one characteristic we hold in common is not so much a characteristic at all, but rather the lack of one. There is no one creed to atheism, no one set of values, no one set of beliefs. We are as varied as humanity itself. Get to know us…and then write another essay. About atheists as we are, not as you imagine us to be.

All the best,

M
 
I'll show you angry!!!

*beats Rabbi with stick*


There...I feel much better now.
Seriously, tho, I just think it's funny.
Funny in a, "hello, kettle? This is the Rabbi...you're black," sort of way.



ETA: Great letter, Mercutio.
 
Mercutio,

You come off sounding angry. You immediately fall to the "straw man" argument in the first paragraph. I would concentrate on showing the Rabbi that he is too broad in classification of theiests and atheists.
 
wastepanel said:
Mercutio,

You come off sounding angry. You immediately fall to the "straw man" argument in the first paragraph. I would concentrate on showing the Rabbi that he is too broad in classification of theiests and atheists.
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Really?
I didn't think he came off as angry.
 
I don't think he came off in the least bit angry. I thought it was a really good job.

Maybe you could just add that for the atheist, it's irrelevant if their view causes "existential despair". We don't accept atheism because it's fun, or comforting, we accept it because that's where the evidence leads us (or lack of).
 
Oooh, and am I angry at my fundie Christian neighbors? Well, not all the time anyway.

My fundie neighbors currently living on either side are very nice. One usually plows my sidewalk for me with his snowblower. Very friendly and I return the favor by helping with his garden.

The other fundy neighbor is rather quiet but a good neighbor. Much better than the previous fundy neighbor who was having drug parties and leaving used condoms in my yard - he moved away shortly after half the police force showed up one night to break up a party.

Two doors up is a stereotypical small town fundy paster with kids. He has heads of dead animals hanging from his walls and his kids hunt the birds and small animals that come to peacefully feed in other yards. His response to my kids saying they don't believe in God, is that it is ok if they come over to play as long as they are believers while in his house.

I finally had to have my dog that was killing his 'free ranging' chickens put to sleep so that source of friction is gone.

All in all, in my report back to the Rabbi I'd have to say that relations with my fundy neighbors are improving. They are not very demanding on my behavior, and actually seem to pretty much do what they want without any prompting on my part. I'll keep an eye on them though.
 
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If atheists are any angrier than the rest of the world, it's because we take so much crap. Re: Jeff Corkern. I wasn't angry at his stories, but I felt a little like Alice down the Rabbit Hole listening to the Red Queen.
 
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