Questions SteveGrenard does NOT want to answer
(And a few he has answered...)
For reference.
The Horizon "Homeopathy" program
Schwartz
CSICOP/JREF
Aspirin as treatment for coronary thrombosis
Children kept in cages
Misc.
(And a few he has answered...)
For reference.
The Horizon "Homeopathy" program
- What do you base your claim on that there were "no controls" on this trial?
Answer: "The security arrangements, who prepared the solutions and the control solutions, who held them, etc were not mentioned in any account. I did not see the original program but I am told by those who did it was not discernible from that either. It was TV, it was edited, remember? It was a pile of rubbish." - By whom were you told, Steve?
- If TV is edited, why did you have such problems acknowledging that Crossing Over was edited as well?
- Did you watch the program at all?
Answer: "No, did you?"
No. However, I have not made a lot of claims about a program I haven't seen. You have. - Why can't a scientific experiment be conducted on TV?
Answer: "It CAN BE but this doesn't mean it has any validity. No peer review, editing, etc." - But results can be found on TV, right?
- Please show how Randi "engineered" the television stunt to "discredit" homeopathy.
Answer: "You're not serious right?"
Yes, I am. Please answer the question. - How do you know that the scientist had a "preconceived bias against a possibly effective alternative treatment"?
Answer: "The scientists were approved, perhaps even selected by Randi and the producers ahead of time. How do we know if they were biased or unbiased? Have we reviewed a record of their opinions on homeopathy before their involvement in this?" - How do you know the scientists were approved and perhaps even selected by Randi?
- Did the protocol not exclude any bias on the scientists? If not, how so?
- Do you claim that the test was conducted differently than what you said should be done: "Usually the control substance (e.g. pure water) and the allegedly active substance are put into identical formats and labeled with numbers or letter or coded. The code is held by one person and locked in a safe. Both substance A and B or 1 or 2 or whatever are tested. Then the code is broken."?
Answer: "The problem is from descriptions of the program as well as from those who viewed it, we don't know. (see above)." - So, your claim was completely unfounded. Do you retract it?
- Do you maintain that judging was used, and not objective testing?
Answer: "'Scientists' were chosen by Randi and the program and asked to give their opinion, their guess, their observation that they could not tell the difference between the control and the active substance. This is judging. You can call it anything you want. Who else besides these referees got to oversee their results? Even judges in courtrooms have judicial oversight. Who backed them up?" - Now you are saying directly that the scientists were chosen by Randi. Please show your evidence of this.
- Please explain how the scientists could have cheated.
- Why would you need to be an expert on homeopathy to judge a result that needs to judging?
- How big a trial do you consider of "significance"? And why?
- Who among those backing the results claims that the trial was too small to be of significance?
- Please point to the evidence published in peer reviewed journals that "dictate" that homeopathy is real.
- In what "peer-reviewed", "scientific" journals did Schwartz publish his studies?
- The data from the homeopathy test were published. Why is Schwartz not publishing his?
- Why is this experiment "controversial", and not Schwartz' HBO-experiment?
- When you dissolve duck liver in water (a very common homeopathic cure), what "duck liver particle" do you imagine would be left in the dilution?
Schwartz
- If the Horizon experiment was not "scientific" because it was on TV, what about Schwartz' HBO-experiment?
Answer: "Schwartz did studies before and after the televisied segment tapings and published all his results in a peer reviewed journal. I didnt see this happening with the Hotizons program or with any Randi challenge in fact. Schwartz studies were done on site at the University of Arziona, not on a TV studio stage. "
Moving the goal posts. I asked about the HBO experiments, not what happened afterwards. Please answer the question: Was Schwartz' HBO experiments scientific or not? - Was judging required at Schwartz' experiments?
CSICOP/JREF
- Please point to what the "party line of CSICOP, JREF or the other groups" is.
Answer: "Who are the donors to CSICOP and CFI? Is this list available? Anyone connected to the development and manufacture of streptokinase or tissue plasminogen activator would do ... I will not say more at this time."
What are you talking about?? Please answer the question or retract it. - Please name the "other groups" you mentioned.
Answer: "CSICOP has dozens of affiliates. And there are also other indie groups like The Skeptic Society but I was more thinking along the lines of the CSICOP branches."
Please answer the question. - How do you know the health of Randi?
Answer: "Randi had open heart surgery and has a heart condition. He publicly revealed this information himself on television. otherwise it would be PHI and I would not mention it if I came by it in any other manner." - How would "taking a kiddie aspirin" help the repercussions of open heart surgery?
Aspirin as treatment for coronary thrombosis
- Who are these people who "screamed the loudest and the longest" against the use of aspirin for this?
Answer: "You have to read the S.I. for articles on this subject. CSICOP came out very heavily opposed to the validity of large scale studies showing that aspirin was of value. They questionned the fact that aspirin was such a miracle in this area."
You made the claim that these people exist. You claimed to know who they were. Please tell us who these people are, by name. Also, provide the references of your claims of CSICOP "very heavily" opposing this. - How do you know it has cost the patients or their insurers three thousand+ dollars a pop?
Answer: "Treatment with TPA costs at least this much. It is a matter of record. I know it from personally being told this by a hospital pharmacist, however. When a pt is on aspirin, TPA cannot be given so its one less expensive treatment the pt can get for coronary thrombosis. Whether they'll admnit it or not, this irks the makers of TPA."
You have not provided your evidence of your claim. Please do so, or retract your claim. - Can you point to where CSICOP refuted the use of aspirin in coronary thrombosis/chest pain victims or as a prophylactic for coronary artery thrombosis?
Answer: "Again, I would have to ferret out back issues of SI on this subject;"
Please do so. Until you get back, the question remains. - If they did, do they still hold these views?
Answer: "The subject sort of died with them as the handwriting on the wall became apparent but somebody brought it up in SI about a year ago again but I dont remember the details."
Again, you have not been able to back up your claim. Please provide the evidence hereof, or retract the claim. - Please point to where you got the information that "many thousands probably died" due to CSICOP and JREF's "efforts to to discredit the treatment for this purpose".
Answer: "I agree I am speculating. If you read the original articles on aspirin in SI and you believed them and you had a heart condition you would not have agreed to use aspirin and you would be increasing your risk of sudden cardiac death. Do I have specific cases? No, but some day there should be a congressional inquiry as to why CSICOP immersed itself in this. This is not over. Everything comes out in the wash sooner or later."
Again, you have not been able to back up your claim. However, in this case, you retract your claim and admit that it was purely speculation.
Children kept in cages
- What "research" are you talking about when you mentioned "unpublished research with profoundly autistic hyperactive children that had to be kept caged"?
- Where did you hear this?
- Who were these kids?
- Who were the researchers?
- If it is unpublished, how do you know about it?
- Do you realize that keeping children caged is a serious offense?
Misc.
- Please point to the rule of this board that allows you to post a whole page from another site.
Answer: "Fair used as confirmed by Pyrrho. The website itself gives permission for non-commercial and non-advertising. I posted those words above below the text. I was not finished adding to this post when you made your feeble attempt to silence a legitimate reply to the "there aint no evidence" claim based on b.s."
By posting the words, you also admitted that your post violated copyrights: You did NOT include ownership.
I bet you two PM each other a lot, but I could be way off.