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Question: Hanukkah and Christmas

Ladyhawk

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Ladyhawk
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
847
How come it's ok to say "Happy Hanukkah" but it's not ok to say "Merry Christmas"?

On our local news stations, they'll do those video type greeting cards and splash words like "Joy" or "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" but never "Merry Christmas". Yet, the same stations will splash "Happy Hanukkah" on other video greetings...

Likewise, in my city, there is a display of Santa and Reindeer on the front lawn of the City Hall. There is also a Hanukkah candle/candelabra (I'm sorry...I don't know what they're called..)

Why is it ok to have the Hanukkah symbol but they can't do a Nativity scene?

I don't want a Nativity scene there, mind you. I just don't understand why the Hanukkah symbol is ok. Isn't it religious based, too? Why is one ok and the other banned? Anyone know?

Thanks!
 
I am glad to be of help, once again.

You see, the media is controlled by Jews. Every aspect of the media, from the creation of properties thru the buying and selling of commercial airtime. All Jews, all the time. (You might be amused to know that 1010 WINS, a local station in NY used to say "All Jews, all the time" but the Jewish Conspiracy(tm) forced them to change it to "News").

So, for this time of year they elevated a somewhat minor holiday, completely thru PR BTW, to the point where it competes with Christmas. This latest situation that you refer to is simply the next step.

Next question, please.
 
Ed....

Thanks. That makes some sense. But, is the Jewish Community strong enough to prevent someone from complaining to the ACLU? That is, if I were to complain to my local city government that I found the Hanukkah display to be in violation of church and state, would they have a leg to stand on in keeping the display up?

Why, do you suppose, the Christian Fundies aren't suing left and right over this kind of stuff ?

Thanks, again!
 
How about this. We are actually in Hannuacka. Christmas isnt till the 25th. Youll find on that day that all the stations have "merry Christmas" all over the place.

This whole "christmas is under attack" thing is a bunch of Orielly made up bull.
 
Tmy said:
How about this. We are actually in Hannuacka. Christmas isnt till the 25th. Youll find on that day that all the stations have "merry Christmas" all over the place.

This whole "christmas is under attack" thing is a bunch of Orielly made up bull.
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Interesting. I'll be a little more attentive this year. Still doesn't explain the menorah (Thanks, RichM) displays being ok and the Nativity scenes being excluded. To me, they both have religious reference. Seems neither should be displayed in front of any city/state or federal gov't property....

(doing her best O'Reilly impersonation ) "Am I wrong? I'll give you the last word " :D
 
Originally posted by Ladyhawk
Ed....

Thanks. That makes some sense. But, is the Jewish Community strong enough to prevent someone from complaining to the ACLU?


ACLU? ACLU? Jews, jews, jews. Do you live in the mid-west or something?

Look, at great personal risk to myself I'd like you to read this.

OK? ok. Nuff said.

That is, if I were to complain to my local city government that I found the Hanukkah display to be in violation of church and state, would they have a leg to stand on in keeping the display up?

Why, do you suppose, the Christian Fundies aren't suing left and right over this kind of stuff ?

Why do they call them "fundies"? Think you know? Think again. They are FUNDED by the ...guess who....JEWS!!

Thanks, again!

I will do all I can. You are welcome.
 
I am glad to have helped. I am justly famed for my clear, concise answers that contain a minimum of messy references.
 
Ladyhawk said:
Interesting. I'll be a little more attentive this year. Still doesn't explain the menorah (Thanks, RichM) displays being ok and the Nativity scenes being excluded. To me, they both have religious reference. Seems neither should be displayed in front of any city/state or federal gov't property....

(doing her best O'Reilly impersonation ) "Am I wrong? I'll give you the last word " :D
Click to expand...

Since it's posible to be a jew and be an atheist it's status as a relgious symbol is slightly less clear. Try lobying to put up some stautues of budda and see what happens
 
Re: Re: Question: Hanukkah and Christmas

richardm said:
Menorah?
Click to expand...

Technically, it's a Hannukiah, and I am almost certainly spelling it wrong. A Hannukiah is the special version of the Menorah that is used only at Hanukah. The Menorah used at other times of the year has seven candles.

But Jews call it a Menorah, too, because in practice no one ever uses a Menorah except at Hannukah. It's one of those trivia questions that rabbis like to point out during December. So call it a Menorah, because that's what we call it too.


In answer to the question about whether you would have a legal leg to stand on if you complained about the Menorah. The answer is no. The court ruling that regulates public Christmas season displays says that religious symbols are ok, but only as part of an overall secular holiday display.

It is ok to have the menorah, because it is next to a reindeer.


(As I typed that last line, I realized just how ridiculous it was. But I am not making that up. Take away Santa and the reindeer, and you would have to remove the menorah.)

Communities in my neck of the woods have creches displayed, with the obligatory reindeer. My guess is that if your community has no nativity scene, it is because some Christian groups are offended by the policy requiring Santa. A lot of people think that "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" and that mixing the religious and the secular demeans the religious.

And a lot of Jews are offended by Hanukah displays, because Hanukah is a minor holiday, and it only gets so much attention because it falls near Christmas, and some Jews think that by making a big deal out of Hanukah, they are actually acting Christian, not Jewish.

If you really wanted to put up a public display that was appropriate to a Jewish holiday, you could put up a Sukka, a temporary dwelling with branches on the roof, in September. Sukkoth is a much more significant holiday than Hanukah. However, that would be forbidden by law, because reindeer don't fly during September.

So your community might have a menorah displayed because there are very few Jews in your community to complain about it.

It all makes sense now, doesn't it?
 
geni said:
Since it's posible to be a jew and be an atheist it's status as a relgious symbol is slightly less clear. Try lobying to put up some stautues of budda and see what happens
Click to expand...



Santa:
santa%5B6%5D.jpg




Also Santa:
sittingbuddist.jpg




You think you can just stick a beard on Buddha, change his name, and we won't know!?! Christmas has been totally taken over by the Jews and the Buddhists, not to mention the Muslims.

MattJ
 
aerocontrols said:
You think you can just stick a beard on Buddha, change his name, and we won't know!?! Christmas has been totally taken over by the Jews and the Buddhists, not to mention the Muslims.

MattJ [/B]
Click to expand...

Ummmm... the three wise men weren't Muslim. They were, most likely, Zoroastrians.
:)
 
Ladyhawk said:
How come it's ok to say "Happy Hanukkah" but it's not ok to say "Merry Christmas"?
Click to expand...

"Merry Christmas."

Hmmm... There seems to be no immediate effect. I haven't broken out in boils or anything. Guess it's OK.

As for the "holiday" stuff, I always interpreted it to mean that everything from Thanksgiving to January 6, including the Advent, Christmas, Channukah, the Twelve Days of Christmas, etc. is the holiday season.
 
You know I don't think anyone replied to LadyHawks question properly.

LadyHawk, I think Your right as the Menorah is a primarily religious symbol as is the Crèche. Christmas trees have a diverse history , Yule log, Hanuka bush as well as the Norse and Pagan tribute to the solstice.
The funny part is that the local TV stations acknowledge "Passover" and "Easter " which ARE primary religious observances.

I would think that if you display a religious symbol on public property that You must display other religious symbols.Thats the reason for Judge Moore's loss of office in the Alabama ten commandments case.

There have been many challenges of the seasonal displays that have a particular religious significance.

In particular : American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky v. Mercer County, Kentucky
To wit: The plaintiffs allege that displayed on a wall of the Mercer County courthouse is a framed copy of one version of the Ten Commandments that is not part of any larger educational or comparative religion display. The ACLU further states that its Mercer County members use the courthouse to transact civic business and that each plaintiff believes in the separation of church and state and the freedom of religion and is offended by the display.

American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio; Matthew Peterson, Reverend,
Plaintiffs-Appellants,
v.
Capitol Square Review and Advisory Board; Robert Taft, Governor of Ohio; Ronald R. Keller; Daniel Shellenbarger; Richard H. Finan; J. Kenneth Blackwell, Secretary of State; Thomas M. Zaino, Tax Commissioner,

Opinion:

"By separating government and religion the establishment clause enables [a religious heterogeneous] society to maintain some civility among believers and unbelievers as well as among diverse believers."
If the government evokes any religious symbolism it must be all inclusive, so any display on public property the includes religious symbols would have to includ Jesus, Jehovah. we don't have to worry about the Muslims as it is against sharia to display either the prophet or Allah, Buddha , Haile Sellassie..Ad Nausium. Not only that but the display must not be offensive to any particular group ( can You spell Atheist Suzy?)
Bottom line being unless there has been a finding that the display of the menorah is sectarian, there is cause for legal action.I'm not a lawyer I do not know.

Edit to add: BTW ignore the idiots.
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
You know I don't think anyone replied to LadyHawks question properly.
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Here's the pragmatic view. Jews are a religious and cultural minority. Therefore their celebrations are seen as a sign of diversity, whereas the Christian majority exercising the same right is construed as oppressive/exclusive.

That's why a manufactured holiday like Kwanzaa gets more media time than Christmas does, even though it's a bigger joke than New Coke was.

Let me state I do not disparage channukah/ramadan/kwanzaa/etc. on principle, but would like to see equal freedoms for "Merry Christmas" and the like. Even the majority have a right to express their part in a diverse society. It seems Orwellian to do otherwise.
 
I agree Jocko that's the spirit and letter of the laws governing these kinds of displays. Like I said the only way I could see that it doesn't violate the law is if the Menorah is deemed a secular decoration.
 
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