• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Question for Muslims

The idea

Graduate Poster
T
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
1,540
Was Jesus, according to you and your teachers, a prophet? Which statements did he make that you consider important? Do you see yourself as a student of Jesus?
 
I'm not a Muslim (you cannot expect too many of them to find your post here), but I can quote the Koran for you: "Surely Jesus was [only] a prophet." The word "only" is not in original Koran text, it is added by translators / interpreters to emphasize that Jesus was (in their view) an ORDINARY prophet, nothing more and nothing less.
 
The idea said:
Was Jesus, according to you and your teachers, a prophet? Which statements did he make that you consider important? Do you see yourself as a student of Jesus?
Click to expand...

They believe Jesus to have been a prophet of Allah who foretold the comming of Mohammed. They quote scriptures in which Jesus tells us he will send a helper. To Christians that helper is the holy spirit. To Moslems it is Mohammed.

BTW
Good luck with the thread.
Usually atheists predatorily converge on threads like this and divert them into an atheist vs nonatheist scenario. For some reason they seem to think that because you post on a religious subject you are hell-bent on converting them.

Weird!
 
The Idea:

Fear not the fantasies of the Foolishly Fallacy Flinging Fundis.

John:

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

Two drink minimum. . . .

Could you cite the sura?

--J.D.
 
Could you cite the sura?
Click to expand...

I quoted the surah from memory (heeey, that DOESN'T mean that I'm a Muslim), but now that I checked the issue, I can see that my memory served me in less than perfect way. Here are the actual quotes, copy & paste from online Koran versions:

Surah 3:59: "Jesus is like Adam in the sight of God: He created him of dust and then said to him: 'Be', and he was."

Surah 43:60: "He [Jesus] was [no more than] a mortal, whom We [God(s)] favoured ..."

Surah 4:171: "The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was [no more than] God's apostle and His Word ... a spirit from Him."

Surah 21:34: "No man before you [Muhammad] have We made immortal."

Surah 39:30: "You [Muhammad], as well as they, are doomed to die."
 
Muslims also refer to some acts of Jesus that are in the gospels of Thomas and Barnabus, but left out of the Biblical gospels. EG: Talking while still a baby, making clay statues of pigeons that came to life.

This may be because Mohammed got his Christian data from the less mainstream sources. Another example, is [5:119]
Then God will say, "Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind: 'worship me and my mother as gods besides God'?" (translation by NJ Dawood)

Jesus denies doing so. But the point is that Mohammed reckoned the trinity refered to God, Jesus and Mary, instead of the usual three.

Muslims also deny that Jesus was crucified.

They regard and respect him as an important prophet and say "peace be upon him" (abbr: pbuh), just as they do when speaking about other prophets.

I'm not aware of them actually quoting Jesus telling a parable. As far as I know, Jesus is "quoted" only to support the new religion.
 
Do you see yourself as a student of Jesus?
Click to expand...

Muslims do not regard themselves as students or "disciples" of any character whose teachings are not recorded in Koran. The main reason must be that the Koran accuses Jews and Christians of "forging" the words of the Bible.

In other words, the Koran teaches that the Jewish Old Testament and the Christian New Testament contain serious errors, and thus cannot be studied too seriously (as no one knows where the errors are and how great they are).

Hey, this is cool, debating about a religion without anyone present who would actually BELIEVE in that religion...
 
Hey, this is cool, debating about a religion without anyone present who would actually BELIEVE in that religion...
Click to expand...
Actually, in all the time I've been on this forum, I think that only one Muslim ever posted here. Name of Jal.

He didn't actually debate though, he merely posted links to Islamic sites.

There are plenty of Islamic fora out there if The Idea wants a genuine Muslim opinion.
 
A "genuine" (official) Muslim opinion is usually quite far from the actual teachings of the Koran...
 
JohnJoeMittler said:
A "genuine" (official) Muslim opinion is usually quite far from the actual teachings of the Koran...
Click to expand...
On what basis is this claim made? I am not challanging it as I know little of the subject. I was just hoping you could link to a article or statistic.
 
If you surf on any academic western-based website dedicated to the study of Islamic cultures, you will find this view.

Koran differs in its literary style greatly from Hebrew Bible and Greek New Testament, which are rather dry, rational prose. The Koran is eloquent poetry from the beginning to the end, and the few "laws" that it contains, are written with rather ambiguous expressions that could be understood in ten different ways.

Therefore Islamic Law and all those religious rules are not "direct quotations of the Koran" in the same way as you would expect Christian or Jewish religious doctrines to be based on quotations of the Bible.

"Christian Fundamentalist" means a person who quotes the Bible word for word. But a "Muslim Fundamentalist" means a person who quotes the post-Koranic interpretations of later Islamic leaders, if not even the words of the very Islamic leaders that happen to be in power today. Ajatollahs represent the "word of God" in Islam. They are regarded as infallible.
 
By "genuine Muslim opinion", I meant the opinion of an actual Muslim. I doubt The Idea will find such a poster on this forum. But there are a lot of lurkers, so who knows?

Gulliamo,
The Quran isn't necessarily the final word in Islam. There are many sources for disagreement, and interpretation of poetry is only one of them.

As well as the Quran, Muslims use the sayings and actions of Mohammed as recorded in the Hadeeth. Without access to those, Muslims wouldn't know (amongst other things) exactly how to pray or exactly how to perform their pilgrimage.

However, they don't all agree on which Hadeeth are genuine. There are even some that regard them all as suspect, and use only the Quran.

That is why you can get stoned for adultery in Nigeria, but not in all Muslim countries. The Quranic punishment is supposed to be flogging. Which implies that either the Quran has been changed or the prophet ignored it.... that's religion for you!

I think that it's mostly the Shia that regard the prophet, Imams, etc as infallible. There are plenty of Muslims that regard the idea of clerics as a little too Christian. In theory, any Muslims can lead the prayers in a mosque.

I don't know how many things there are that all Muslims would agree on, but I think that the status of Jesus is likely to be one of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom