Question about voter ID laws

[Minoosh]

On conservative talk radio the other day I heard an interesting bit of audio. It had to do with whether requiring photo ID suppressed black voter turnout. A content producer (reporter) interviewed white people in Berkeley about whether voter ID laws suppressed the black vote. Most people gave answers like (paraphrasing) "yes, black people are less likely to have picture ID, they may have less Internet access, it's harder to get to DMV" etc. One woman interviewed speculated that black people were not Internet savvy. That's where the segment ended and of course talk radio played up the angle that "black people don't know how to use the Internet."

The producer then interviewed black people in East Harlem. They all knew where DMV was, they all had picture ID, they all had Internet access etc.

Obviously, man-on-the-street interviews are edited. When I have done this kind of editing I pay attention to not distorting the result. I might cull out a repetitive point; I might allow a couple of extreme answers if they balance out. I would go to one place where I could get representative samples from various races.

My question: Is it distorting to ask white people in Berkeley, while going to Harlem to interview black people?

 

[Ranb]

Maybe it wasn't about voters and ID's at all. Maybe the segment was about people's opinions of others?

How many years is it going to take until people should not expect to be surprised that they need some sort of proper identification to vote or obtain a passport? It might take a while, but eventually anyone should be able to figure out that they need an ID card of some sort. Had a problem four years ago? Should not be a problem for you this election.

Ranb

 

[yodaluver28]

Maybe it wasn't about voters and ID's at all. Maybe the segment was about people's opinions of others?

How many years is it going to take until people should not expect to be surprised that they need some sort of proper identification to vote or obtain a passport? It might take a while, but eventually anyone should be able to figure out that they need an ID card of some sort. Had a problem four years ago? Should not be a problem for you this election.

Ranb

The problem isn't that people haven't "figured out" that they might need an ID. The problem for some is in actually obtaining the ID. This can be especially difficult in a state like North Carolina where the ID law was deliberately passed to refuse the types of ID most common in the African American community, while accepting those most common in the white community. That's why the ID aspect of the law was overturned by the courts: because the Republicans who made law purposely researched how to use a rigid ID law to deliberately disenfranchise black voters because they vote Democratic.

ID’s for voting should be automatic with citizenship but only Democrats will attempt to accomplish that since Republicans don’t want minorities or the poor to have them because lack of ID helps suppress their votes. When many states enacted voter ID laws, they also enacted ridiculously strict document requirements for adults to obtain an ID. Documents that the elderly, minorities, and poor are far less likely to have access to than whites, the middle class, and younger people. People without access to numerous legal documents are out of luck by deliberate design.

In some states, as many as five official documents of various kinds are required to obtain a simple photo ID to vote with, including but not limited to, their ORIGINAL certified birth certificate (not a copy). Of course if you don't have a certified birth certificate, you can get one from your Secretary of State's office but only if you have already have an ID, so that's totally unhelpful. This system's set up to benefit people who get driver's training in high school and obtain a driver's license then with their school and parent's information. Anyone who doesn't benefit from that for whatever reason, can be out of luck in several states.

There's also the issue of getting to a SOS office. The poor are less likely to be able to get to an office outside their district or get a day off work to do it. SOS offices usually operate on bank hours and, in some states, offices in poor areas are only open one to five days a month. Then, you have to pay a processing fee for it (as much as $40 in some states) and that fee applies in some states even if they reject your documents and refuse you an ID (which a clerk can do at their discretion with no appeals process beyond a shift supervisor or clerk at the state capital over the phone).

 

[Minoosh]

Maybe it wasn't about voters and ID's at all. Maybe the segment was about people's opinions of others?

How many years is it going to take until people should not expect to be surprised that they need some sort of proper identification to vote or obtain a passport? It might take a while, but eventually anyone should be able to figure out that they need an ID card of some sort. Had a problem four years ago? Should not be a problem for you this election.

I tend to agree, but I also know of many potential glitches. My mom has an expired drivers license only. I don't know if that will be accepted. There's a case to be made that rural voters - definitely not Manhattanites - will be somewhat at a handicap. So I don't dismiss the possibility of voter suppression tactics.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Maybe it wasn't about voters and ID's at all. Maybe the segment was about people's opinions of others?

How many years is it going to take until people should not expect to be surprised that they need some sort of proper identification to vote or obtain a passport? It might take a while, but eventually anyone should be able to figure out that they need an ID card of some sort. Had a problem four years ago? Should not be a problem for you this election.

Ranb

Why have these laws at all. If people are registered to vote, then send them a voters pack with information like who they can vote for in each position that it on the ballot, including a bit about them, where their local voting stations are, what any propositions might be, and include in that a Voter Card with their name address and an ID number for when they come to vote. Solves the potential problem, which is pretty rare anyways by all accounts.

 

[Ray Brady]

The producer then interviewed black people in East Harlem.

Manhattan may not be the best place to go when you're researching voter suppression tactics.

 

[Ranb]

The problem isn't that people haven't "figured out" that they might need an ID. The problem for some is in actually obtaining the ID. This can be especially difficult in a state like North Carolina where the ID law was deliberately passed to refuse the types of ID most common in the African American community, while accepting those most common in the white community.

What kinds of ID's are you referring to? What is the most common "black" ID and the most common "white" ID?

That's why the ID aspect of the law was overturned by the courts: because the Republicans who made law purposely researched how to use a rigid ID law to deliberately disenfranchise black voters because they vote Democratic.

Not anymore. http://ncsbe2.azurewebsites.net/Voter-Registration/Voter-Id-Req

Acceptable forms of HAVA ID include:
A current and valid photo identification; or
A copy of one of the following documents that show the name and address of the voter: a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document.

When many states enacted voter ID laws, they also enacted ridiculously strict document requirements for adults to obtain an ID. Documents that the elderly, minorities, and poor are far less likely to have access to than whites, the middle class, and younger people.

Examples?

In some states, as many as five official documents of various kinds are required to obtain a simple photo ID to vote with, including but not limited to, their ORIGINAL certified birth certificate (not a copy). Of course if you don't have a certified birth certificate, you can get one from your Secretary of State's office but only if you have already have an ID, so that's totally unhelpful. This system's set up to benefit people who get driver's training in high school and obtain a driver's license then with their school and parent's information. Anyone who doesn't benefit from that for whatever reason, can be out of luck in several states.

As far as I know a person can obtain a state issued ID card from the DMV in any state that is only for identification purposes and not a driver's license. My wife (a foreign national) obtained a WA State ID with only her passport/K-1 visa/marriage certificate.

Using your example of NC, it seems that it is not too hard to obtain a certified copy of a birth certificate using only a W-2 and utility bill (or other stuff) as ID. http://vitalrecords.nc.gov/faqs.htm#idforms

This BC can then be used to obtain a state ID which is used to register to vote. It is an effort, but does not seem to be based on denying any certain racial group of the vote in NC.

 

[Metullus]

Manhattan may not be the best place to go when you're researching voter suppression tactics.

And Berkeley probably is not the best place to go if you are interested in reality...

 

[Foolmewunz]

On conservative talk radio the other day I heard an interesting bit of audio. It had to do with whether requiring photo ID suppressed black voter turnout. A content producer (reporter) interviewed white people in Berkeley about whether voter ID laws suppressed the black vote. Most people gave answers like (paraphrasing) "yes, black people are less likely to have picture ID, they may have less Internet access, it's harder to get to DMV" etc. One woman interviewed speculated that black people were not Internet savvy. That's where the segment ended and of course talk radio played up the angle that "black people don't know how to use the Internet."

The producer then interviewed black people in East Harlem. They all knew where DMV was, they all had picture ID, they all had Internet access etc.

Obviously, man-on-the-street interviews are edited. When I have done this kind of editing I pay attention to not distorting the result. I might cull out a repetitive point; I might allow a couple of extreme answers if they balance out. I would go to one place where I could get representative samples from various races.

My question: Is it distorting to ask white people in Berkeley, while going to Harlem to interview black people?

It'd seem rather obvious. The Berkley interviewees were asked what they knew or had learned (or even had heard) about blacks getting photo IDs. This doesn't come from a vacuum. They'd heard of it because the issue has been publicized by people who looked at the records and the demographics of those records.

The second group, a sampling of "average black people" (which is a lie) is made to show how stoopid those white liberals in Berkeley are. Average black people do not live in one of the most liberal cities in the country, with every effort made to provide equal access and voting rights. East Harlem is NYC. There's a two day module in the public high schools that teaches kids how to get their SS # (if they are still of a generation that didn't get them at birth), where to get Learner's Permits and Driver's Licenses, etc....

Now, maybe they could do that interview in Hendersonville, NC or Muskogee, OK or Steubenville, OH. What would the results be.

In short, the program (but you mentioned it was conservative radio) is propaganda. Another way of saying "Don't see what all the fuss is about. This is just trying to confuse the issue so that they can keep on rigging the vote." It has about the validity of a Jay-Walking clip or one of John Watters smarmy condescending features for the O'Reilly Factor.

 

[Mumbles]

There's a very easy way to make voting easy, if people are still whining for voter ID. Simple make ID mandatory, issue ID on birth, update as needed, and make the day to vote a mandatory national holiday. Done!

The implementation may be difficult, due to elders that may have be been birthed by midwife, or who lost ID, but we can easily begin putting this into place now. It can be hammered out, if we put our minds to it, with *very* minimal mistakes.

But we, in the US, don't. Instead, what we see is goofy polling places, voting restrictions, and the likes. And that's why this has become a fist-fight.

"Oh, we just want to protect Identity. Let's ask for certain forms of ID, and then close access to those forms of ID, and we'll close down polling stations in the mostly - black neighborhoods..."

Uh - huh.

The actual aims are pretty obvious aren't they?

 

[Foolmewunz]

There's a very easy way to make voting easy, if people are still whining for voter ID. Simple make ID mandatory, issue ID on birth, update as needed, and make the day to vote a mandatory national holiday. Done!

The implementation may be difficult, due to elders that may have be been birthed by midwife, or who lost ID, but we can easily begin putting this into place now. It can be hammered out, if we put our minds to it, with *very* minimal mistakes.

But we, in the US, don't. Instead, what we see is goofy polling places, voting restrictions, and the likes. And that's why this has become a fist-fight.

"Oh, we just want to protect Identity. Let's ask for certain forms of ID, and then close access to those forms of ID, and we'll close down polling stations in the mostly - black neighborhoods..."

Uh - huh.

The actual aims are pretty obvious aren't they?

Far too sensible. That's infringing on our freedomz, man! (Or that's the way the oppressors sell it to the silent majority, at least.)

 

[Maya22]

California currently doesn't require an ID to vote.