Psychics worried about being "sued by sceptics" in the UK

[Baby Nemesis]

Here's some good news, nearly a year old, but I missed it the first time: Psychic crackdown on the cards. (The Observer, Sunday 6 April 2008)

The evocative question 'Is there anybody there?' conjures up images of mediums summoning spirits in a darkened room. But now psychics must add a few riders before they invoke the voices of the dead, thanks to new consumer laws due to come into force. Breathless audiences are now likely to be asked: 'Is there anybody here... who is vulnerable, of nervous disposition, or likely to sue?'

Indeed, a whole list of disclaimers must be added to the spiritualists' spiel if they are to avoid an avalanche of writs following the repeal next month of the Fraudulent Mediums Act, to be replaced by the new Consumer Protection Regulations. Promises to raise the dead, secure good fortune or heal through the laying on of hands are all at risk of legal action from disgruntled customers. Spiritualists say they will be forced to issue disclaimers, such as
'this is a scientific experiment, the results of which cannot be guaranteed'. They claim the new regulations will leave them open to malicious civil action by sceptics. ...

there will now be nothing between the medium and the trading standards officer - and no need [for the one taking the legal action] to prove fraud. Instead it will be up to the trader, in this case the medium, to prove they did not mislead, coerce or take advantage of any 'vulnerable' consumers.

So, assuming the laws were brought in, does anyone know of any psychics who have actually been sued by sceptics? Or is that ever likely to happen, given the cost of legal action?

 

[Azrael 5]

There was a case in Manchester late last year of a psychic being prosecuted due to deception,can't recall full story though.

 

[Sherlock]

U.S. Skeptic, both defendant and winning Plaintiff

I believe I'm unique. In 1986 I was sued by a psychic in a small Oregon state county court as the defendant. However in 1992 I returned the favor by filing a lawsuit first in Florida against the same psychic, before reaching a court recognized settlement. However in 2005 I again filed a lawsuit (and again against the same psychic) first in Washington State court and soon thereafter in early 2006 that lawsuit was refiled and accepted in a U.S. federal court. I won judgments against the psychic (for breach of the original legal settlement in Florida) and am now awaiting settlement payments from assets collected after she filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy --- listing me as her principal creditor. For full information see http://www.amindformurder.com/oneminutesummary.htm
and related section at http://www.amindformurder.com/Present2006.htm
-John Merrell I believe I haunt a great many psychics now.

 

[Dr H]

Here's some good news, nearly a year old, but I missed it the first time: Psychic crackdown on the cards. (The Observer, Sunday 6 April 2008)

So, assuming the laws were brought in, does anyone know of any psychics who have actually been sued by sceptics? Or is that ever likely to happen, given the cost of legal action?

I don't really see the psychics having any good reason to balk at this. After all, plenty of doctors get sued for malpractice if they make promises and then screw up; why not psychics?

I can see a whole new industry growing up around this: psychic malpractice insurance.

 

[Dr H]

Here's some good news, nearly a year old, but I missed it the first time: Psychic crackdown on the cards. (The Observer, Sunday 6 April 2008)



So, assuming the laws were brought in, does anyone know of any psychics who have actually been sued by sceptics? Or is that ever likely to happen, given the cost of legal action?

I believe I'm unique. In 1986 I was sued by a psychic in a small Oregon state county court as the defendant. However in 1992 I returned the favor by filing a lawsuit first in Florida against the same psychic, before reaching a court recognized settlement. However in 2005 I again filed a lawsuit (and again against the same psychic) first in Washington State court and soon thereafter in early 2006 that lawsuit was refiled and accepted in a U.S. federal court. I won judgments against the psychic (for breach of the original legal settlement in Florida) and am now awaiting settlement payments from assets collected after she filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy --- listing me as her principal creditor. For full information see http://www.amindformurder.com/oneminutesummary.htm
and related section at http://www.amindformurder.com/Present2006.htm
-John Merrell I believe I haunt a great many psychics now.

John, you are my new hero.

 

[gdnp]

Fortunately, the real psychics just need to avoid the customers they know are going to sue them...

 

[Azrael 5]

Ah seems I mis-remembered.Here is the story I refer to:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1084982_psychic_didnt_see_it_coming

 

[Baby Nemesis]

Ah seems I mis-remembered.Here is the story I refer to: ...

Oh I see, so he wasn't actually sued for being a psychic. They just think it's amusing that advertising himself as an accurate psychic, he didn't see the prosecution for benefit fraud coming.

Fortunately, the real psychics just need to avoid the customers they know are going to sue them...

Yeah, 'cos they'll be bound to be better at seeing Those coming.

I believe I'm unique. In 1986 I was sued by a psychic in a small Oregon state county court as the defendant. However in 1992 I returned the favor by filing a lawsuit first in Florida against the same psychic, before reaching a court recognized settlement. However in 2005 I again filed a lawsuit (and again against the same psychic) first in Washington State court and soon thereafter in early 2006 that lawsuit was refiled and accepted in a U.S. federal court. I won judgments against the psychic (for breach of the original legal settlement in Florida) and am now awaiting settlement payments from assets collected after she filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy --- listing me as her principal creditor. For full information see http://www.amindformurder.com/oneminutesummary.htm
and related section at http://www.amindformurder.com/Present2006.htm
-John Merrell I believe I haunt a great many psychics now.

Oh. The website says this was a famous psychic who'd made a lot of TV appearances, and claimed to work for police departments helping to solve crime, and even that she'd "put people in jail"; but many of the details of her claims changed over time; and there was a concern that if she did work for any police departments, she might point fingers at people who were in reality innocent of the crimes she was accusing them of, and they might go on to be convicted.

Do you know of any cases where this has actually happened because of something a psychic said?

And some of her claims have distressed or annoyed people, like her taking almost all the credit for having found a plane that crashed and killed everyone on board, saying she had psychic visions of where it was, when one of the victims' family members called her claims to have located it a "monstrous lie". And she claimed a passenger or more than one were alive after the crash, when in fact they all died.

And she charges a lot of money for communicating with people's dead relatives, when in fact she has been proved to flounder when not given many details to work on.

 

[gdnp]

Oh. The website says this was a famous psychic who'd made a lot of TV appearances, and claimed to work for police departments helping to solve crime, and even that she'd "put people in jail"; but many of the details of her claims changed over time; and there was a concern that if she did work for any police departments, she might point fingers at people who were in reality innocent of the crimes she was accusing them of, and they might go on to be convicted.

Do you know of any cases where this has actually happened because of something a psychic said?

The closest I can remember was a case last summer that I recall only vaguely. A social worker of some sort went to a psychic and was told someone she was working with was abusing their children. The social worker thought of a family that met the vague description of the psychic and the kids were taken away. They had to fight to get their kids back when the only evidence against them was the words of a psychic who had never even met them.

 

[TheSkepticCanuck]

The closest I can remember was a case last summer that I recall only vaguely. A social worker of some sort went to a psychic and was told someone she was working with was abusing their children. The social worker thought of a family that met the vague description of the psychic and the kids were taken away. They had to fight to get their kids back when the only evidence against them was the words of a psychic who had never even met them.

I believe this is the story you are referring to.

Mom wants apology after psychic's abuse claim

 

[Baby Nemesis]

Wow!!

 

[gdnp]

I believe this is the story you are referring to.

Mom wants apology after psychic's abuse claim

Yep. That's the one.

 

[dandelion]

Here in Holy Catholic Ireland we have very profitable and successful Psychic Hotlines. It's apparently a huge business in a country of only 5 million people. Most of the Psychics are members of the "British Psychic registration Board", so that makes it all ok. I went to a Psychic just once, she got very angry with me toward the end, accused me of not believing, one thing that she got right in 30 minutes of drivel. I would love to see them banned from offering a service but suspect they would go underground and possible become even more popular in the process. That's what happened to the Catholic church here in the 1700's.

 

[Mojo]

So, assuming the laws were brought in, does anyone know of any psychics who have actually been sued by sceptics? Or is that ever likely to happen, given the cost of legal action?

The law came into force on 26th May last year. Any actions under it are likely to be taken by Trading Standards departments rather than private individuals.

It covers a lot more than psychics, by the way. Check out the list of "Commercial practices which are in all circumstances considered unfair" for specific examples. I'm particularly interested in No. 17: "Falsely claiming that a product is able to cure illnesses, dysfunction or malformations".

I suspect that the reason psychics noticed it was that it repealed the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951, which had a couple of handy get-outs for them (in particular the "entertainment" clause).

 

[Baby Nemesis]

Here in Holy Catholic Ireland we have very profitable and successful Psychic Hotlines. It's apparently a huge business in a country of only 5 million people. Most of the Psychics are members of the "British Psychic registration Board", so that makes it all ok. I went to a Psychic just once, she got very angry with me toward the end, accused me of not believing, one thing that she got right in 30 minutes of drivel. I would love to see them banned from offering a service but suspect they would go underground and possible become even more popular in the process. That's what happened to the Catholic church here in the 1700's.

From accounts from people who've worked as phone psychics, it seems people tend to phone psychics when they'd be far better off speaking to a friend, or a specialist in whatever problem they've got. See, for instance:

My Life as a Phone PsychicCallers are paying $2 a minute for a supernatural adviser. They're getting me instead.

... Then I got a call from "Denise," wanting to know if she is going to get enough money from the insurance company for being rear-ended because she needs the money desperately. I wanted to say, "In that case, hang up the phone!" as well as explain to her that I was an expert on love, not claims adjustment. I laid out the cards anyway. I realized I really didn't want to give this woman advice, so I hemmed and hawed, and she let her time run out at five minutes.

Finally, a man called. "Carl" wanted to know if his former girlfriend of eight years, who was now involved with another guy, was going to come back to him. I told him the reading said no.

"I don't understand," he said. "I call a lot, and I've heard all sorts of things. The last time I called I was told we were going to get married and have a kid."

Oh, dear. I explained to him these were just tarot cards and that no one who reads cards for him has the answer. I asked if he had any reason to think his former girlfriend was interested in getting back together. ...

Maybe one thing that would work to warn the public is if Trading Standards or an equivalent organisation phoned several phone psychics up, asked questions about health problems and relationships and things, and if the responses were unethical, for instance if anyone was told they might have a serious illness when no symptoms had been discussed, or were told they were going to have a good life with a boyfriend/girlfriend, when such assurance could be harmful if it encouraged people to get serious with people who wouldn't be good for them, and in fact the Trading Standards person on the phone didn't even have a new girlfriend-boyfriend but was just pretending to, such things could be exposed in the media. If that happened often enough, or if companies were prosecuted, and the story was in the headlines frequently so it got noticed a lot, then maybe quite a few people would become more sceptical.

Here are more articles about problems with phone psychics and the potential harm they can do, which shows there's a need for something like this to happen:

Hotlining - An intrepid reporter does hard time in the telepsychic trenches.
I Was a Psychic Friend.
Exposed: TV's bogus 'psychics'.

 

[Dr H]

Here in Holy Catholic Ireland we have very profitable and successful Psychic Hotlines. It's apparently a huge business in a country of only 5 million people. Most of the Psychics are members of the "British Psychic registration Board", so that makes it all ok. I went to a Psychic just once, she got very angry with me toward the end, accused me of not believing, one thing that she got right in 30 minutes of drivel. I would love to see them banned from offering a service but suspect they would go underground and possible become even more popular in the process. That's what happened to the Catholic church here in the 1700's.

As an ex-Catholic I find that rather ironic, considering that the Church has so many times denounced and opposed all dabbling in magic/paranormal matters. Other than it's own brand of them, of course.

 

[jayman]

There's Another Problem

You can sue and arrest psychics all you want, but that's not going to diminish people's belief in them. I think the problem is that the majority of people aren't educated on things like cold reading and confirmation bias. If they were they would realize that the psychics are fooling the believers and the believers are fooling themselves.

 

[Tricky]

You can sue and arrest psychics all you want, but that's not going to diminish people's belief in them. I think the problem is that the majority of people aren't educated on things like cold reading and confirmation bias. If they were they would realize that the psychics are fooling the believers and the believers are fooling themselves.

That's the ticket. We need to teach kids from an early age how to recognize confirmation bias and other tricks the soi-disant psychics in order that they may protect themselves from being taken advantage of. It has worked reasonably well in getting kids to be more suspicious of people offering them candy. Critical thinking ought to be a part of elementary education.

 

[Sherlock]

You might be surprised at how quiet things get --- particularly the level of public claims made before media --- when someone is around willing to sue to get the facts. Conditions in the Northwest continue to be quieter than normal. My latest posting covers a psychic who claims to have assisted in finding 27 murder victims. Since the new web site went up, media inquiries have also gone up on skeptical reviews and commendary. A few solid lawsuits is not always such a bad thing. Just keep the facts close at hand.