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Proposed cuts to science under Musk and Trump

angrysoba

Philosophile
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Sean Carroll has a good podcast episode out about the impact of proposed budget cuts to U.S. science funding under Trump's administration.

One of the main points of attack by Musk, who is, after all, the driving force of this is that overheads have to be massively slashed from sometimes around 60% to a maximum of 15%.

How does Musk come up with that figure? Does anyone know?

Anyway, Sean Carroll explains why that is unreasonable. He gives a very clear and unhyperbolic argument about why the overheads are not only necessary, but also, typically, are insufficient. He explains why this is likely to result in fewer research scientists seeing the US as a good place to further their careers, and an actually good reason for scientists to leave the country. He also points to the ways that this will also have an impact on overseas scientists wanting to collaborate with US insitutions, and how a lack of research will also make the universities less desirable.

Furthermore, he also points to another problem, albeit less related to science, and that is the fact it is downright illegal for Musk and DOGE to be doing this. This is of course why the courts have stepped in, although we have already seen that Musk and Mini Me have been pushed in front of the press (or at least those in the press who say the shibboleths), to explain why bureaucracy and courts are unelected, etc...

That said, for now, it looks like the courts are attempting to put a stop to this...

A federal judge ordered the Trump administration to hold off on a plan that would cut $4 billion in federal funding for research at the nation’s universities, cancer centers and hospitals.
The funds disbursed by the National Institutes of Health cover the administrative and overhead costs for a vast swath of biomedical research, some of which is directed at tackling diseases like cardiovascular conditions, cancer and diabetes.
Link

I'd be interested to hear in particular from people who either work in science in the US, or have collaborated with people who do, or somehow have some connection to science in the US....
 
Musk and Trump have no understanding of science or how science works with universities. It is all in the firm belief that all of the right has that "the government does not do anything useful." Just trans gender mice and stuff. It was trans genic.
There is also a lack of undestanding that many discoveries are tools. You then use the tools, even in industry, to invent science products and solutions to real world problems. Things you can patent. You do not patent the tools as nobody can use them for 20 years.
 
The Supreme Court seems to think he is not.

Congress should be controlling the purse strings. Not some Ketamine psychopath buddy of the President.
FTFY. Dump is just King now, a feeble and confused figurehead lower on the pecking order than Musk's little toddler.
 
"Forward Into the Past!" /Firesign Theatre. There is way too much of this "science" stuff in the USA anyway. Republicans and the far right already know everything they need to.
 
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"Forward Into the Past!" /Firesign Theatre. There is way too much of this "science" stuff in the USA anyway. Republicans and the far right already know everything they need to.
And those scientists haven’t yet finished science despite doing science at the the tax payers expense.
 
And those scientists haven’t yet finished science despite doing science at the the tax payers expense.
But so much government waste! And for what? Time to stop throwing good money after bad. Those scientists will find other work in the great bastion of capitalism. /MAGArat. (Or maybe there are other countries that could use their expertise).
 
The Supreme Court seems to think he is not.
Oh, we'll see. The 4th Court of Appeals has already lifted an activist judge's baseless injunction against Trump's DEI executive order.

Even for this forum, it should be disturbing that some federal district judge doesn't think Trump has the constitutional right to deport violent illegal aliens. Unreal.

Congress should be controlling the purse strings. Not some Ketamine psychopath buddy of the President.
Funny how you guys never said a peep about this stuff when Biden was unilaterally cancelling hundreds of billions of dollars in federal student loan debt, which must be funded by Congress, or when Biden unilaterally shifted a quarter of a trillion dollars from its congressionally mandated appropriation to fund something that he couldn't get Congress to fund. Gee, not a peep from you guys about executive overreach then.
 
Even for this forum, it should be disturbing that some federal district judge doesn't think Trump has the constitutional right to deport violent illegal aliens. Unreal.

Strawman.
Funny how you guys never said a peep about this stuff when Biden was unilaterally cancelling hundreds of billions of dollars in federal student loan debt, which must be funded by Congress, or when Biden unilaterally shifted a quarter of a trillion dollars from its congressionally mandated appropriation to fund something that he couldn't get Congress to fund. Gee, not a peep from you guys about executive overreach then.

You must not have been reading the thread about student loans and ◊◊◊◊ in real-time if you don't think anyone was complaining about student loan forgiveness. I don't have a clue what you're talking about with the quarter of a trillion thing, but I commonly am lost when you go on these weird pro-Trump rants.
 
Oh, we'll see. The 4th Court of Appeals has already lifted an activist judge's baseless injunction against Trump's DEI executive order.

Even for this forum, it should be disturbing that some federal district judge doesn't think Trump has the constitutional right to deport violent illegal aliens. Unreal.

Problem is most of those "violent illegal aliens" are often not violent and not illegal. Try paying attention.

Funny how you guys never said a peep about this stuff when Biden was unilaterally cancelling hundreds of billions of dollars in federal student loan debt, which must be funded by Congress, or when Biden unilaterally shifted a quarter of a trillion dollars from its congressionally mandated appropriation to fund something that he couldn't get Congress to fund. Gee, not a peep from you guys about executive overreach then.

Took you two weeks to come up with that whataboutism?

The total of loans forgiven was 188 billion, barely making "billions" and was an effort to end predatory loans that had led to a debt crisis. A lot of it was renegotiation

This action is far, far removed from Ketamine-boy's slashing government positions so irresponsibly that rehiring had to be done in a panic.

Biden's actions saved many from crippling debt. fElon's drugged up antics have saved almost nothing and have cost the US much of its soft power, probably will ruin our National Parks, leave our veterans without lifelines, let Bird Flu go unmonitored, and left out nuclear stockpile in disarray.

Oh, and to cover this he lied constantly about finding "fraud".
 
Sean Carroll has a good podcast episode out about the impact of proposed budget cuts to U.S. science funding under Trump's administration.

One of the main points of attack by Musk, who is, after all, the driving force of this is that overheads have to be massively slashed from sometimes around 60% to a maximum of 15%.

How does Musk come up with that figure? Does anyone know?
My understanding is that small grants from private sources provide 15% overhead. Universities are OK with junior researchers obtaining these grants so that they can collect data. They use these preliminary results to apply for larger grants (that also give a higher percentage of overhead). I don't have a detailed citation handy; medicinal chemist Derek Lowe gives some discussion here, however. Holden Thorp (editor of Science magazine) was interviewed by NPR on this matter.
EDT
Back in February the New York Times ran and Op-Ed that stated, "In 2015, Newt Gingrich argued for doubling the N.I.H. budget because, on top of all the other benefits, good health saves money. In contrast, the severe cuts announced Friday would follow the playbook advocated by Project 2025, which maintained that such payments “cross-subsidize leftist agendas.”" One wonders for example how Dr. Steven Rosenberg's research on cancer (to take an example from the RFK thread) could be interpreted as a leftist agenda.
 
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