• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Prohibition and the constitution

CBL4

Master Poster
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
2,346
In the early 1900s, the leaders of the US wanted to ban the consumption and production of alcohol nationwide. In order to do this, the congress and the states pass the 18th constitutional amendment. This was necessary because the federal government had no constitutional authority to do so.

Later, congress simply passed laws to ban other drugs.

Why was it necessary to pass an amendment for alcohol but not for marijuana and heroin?

CBL
 
The later politicians got creative in adapting existing powers to allow them pass laws that earlier generations would have found to be unconstitutional. For example, the marijuana law that was just upheld by the Supreme court is, it is claimed, an interstate commerce regulation.
 
Gwyn ap Nudd said:
The later politicians got creative in adapting existing powers to allow them pass laws that earlier generations would have found to be unconstitutional. For example, the marijuana law that was just upheld by the Supreme court is, it is claimed, an interstate commerce regulation.
This week's "Man Bites Dog" line, from the June 8 Wall Street Journal:
We've never supported drug legalization, even in its "medical marijuana" drag. Still, we can't help but feel uneasy about the Supreme Court's 6-3 decision Monday in Gonzales v. Raich, which held that the federal government can trump state laws permitting the possession and cultivation of small quantities of cannabis for purely personal use.

As Justice Clarence Thomas wrote in his dissent: "If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything, and the federal government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers." By "enumerated powers," Justice Thomas means the idea that the federal government can undertake only such activities as the Constitution explicitly permits.

Hence the 10th Amendment, which reserves those powers not listed -- such as criminal law enforcement -- to the states. President James Madison, the Constitution's primary author, famously vetoed a highway bill in 1817: "The legislative powers vested in Congress are specified and enumerated in the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution, and it does not appear that the power proposed to be exercised by the bill is among the enumerated powers..."

How things have changed -- largely as a result of New Deal-era jurisprudence holding that the federal government's Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce could be used to justify all sorts of previously unimagined powers. This can be a good thing, when what we are truly talking about is interstate commerce.

But by the 1990s federal law making had grown so unhinged from any plausible Commerce Clause justification that it provoked a minor Supreme Court backlash. In 1995 in United States v. Lopez, the Court struck down the Gun-Free School Zones Act on the grounds that gun possession near a school was not an economic activity. And in United States v. Morrison, the Court struck down portions of the Violence Against Women Act on similar grounds.

Raich would appear to end the Lopez line of reasoning, since the two decisions don't seem reconcilable. If, as Justice Antonin Scalia wrote in his majority concurrence, non-economic activities can be regulated so long as they are part of a "comprehensive scheme of regulation," there would appear to be no federal power the Commerce Clause couldn't theoretically justify.

And let no one be deluded that the democratic preference of America's largest state isn't being trampled here. We didn't support the California medical marijuana ballot initiative at issue in Raich. But a clear majority of Californians did. Just because an issue is "important" doesn't mean it should be a matter for federal law. Almost all homicide is regulated at the state level, and contentious issues like abortion rights are best handled not by judicial fiat but by democratic compromises in the 50 states. Who knows what further intrusions into the rights of local polities the Raich decision may one day be used to justify?
Wow. The Wall Street Journal disagrees with a Supreme Court ruling overturning state laws allowing medical marijuana. And Justices Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia find themselves on the opposite side of the fence at the showdown.

Next you're going to tell me a conservative Republican president wants to appoint a black woman to be secretary of state and that the only Senate votes cast against her will be from Democrats.
 
[/B][/QUOTE]
Next you're going to tell me a conservative Republican president wants to appoint a black woman to be secretary of state and that the only Senate votes cast against her will be from Democrats. [/B][/QUOTE]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: GWB is NOT a conservative!
 
Libertarian said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: GWB is NOT a conservative!

Sure he is. You just persist in the idea that conservatism means smaller government, lower taxes, and the rest of the GOP propaganda. GWB, as Reagan and Bush I before him, is merely showing what conservatism actually means; bigger government--with the added bonuses of reduced social services and involvement in your private life out of respect for "family values."

If you want your brand of "conservatism," you have to vote Libertarian.
 
Cleon said:

If you want your brand of "conservatism," you have to vote Libertarian.
I think he does, I can't really put me finger on it but he kind of emits a Libertarian vipe.I think he does, I can't really put me finger on it, but he kind of emits a Libertarian vibe.
 
Grammatron said:
Ah, well, those are different standards.

Really?

Could you - just quickly - line up the different standards of the two political spectra?
 
CFLarsen said:
Really?

Could you - just quickly - line up the different standards of the two political spectra?

I could, however the fact that the spectra are dynamic and always changing people will disagree on the line up.

For instance,
Health-care: Liberal or conservative? Clinton wanted universal coverage, I would say that's quite liberal.

Trade: Clinton pushed for NAFTA that could be both liberal and conservative. I'd put it down for conservative.

Environment: Clinton really didn't do much in that area until litterely the last minute of his presidency. So I'd say neutral.

Defense: Mixed as well, though he mostly had very liberal ideas. Spending was drasticly cut but we were part of few engagements. I'd slate him for liberal in this one.

Drugs: Smokes but didn't inhale :) I'll say liberal ;)

Traffic: Raised the speed limit. That was just cool, since I like to speed, not sure where it puts him.

So overall we get a pretty balanced President, which is why I liked him but he tended to lean more toward liberal than conservative, IMHO.
 
CFLarsen said:
Really?

Could you - just quickly - line up the different standards of the two political spectra?

Read this before you decide whether to make a serious attempt at this, Grammatron.
 
CBL4 said:
In the early 1900s, the leaders of the US wanted to ban the consumption and production of alcohol nationwide. In order to do this, the congress and the states pass the 18th constitutional amendment. This was necessary because the federal government had no constitutional authority to do so.

Later, congress simply passed laws to ban other drugs.

Why was it necessary to pass an amendment for alcohol but not for marijuana and heroin?

CBL

'Later' would be when Harry J. Anslinger wanted to legislate morality in a bid for the White House, and realized that the prohibition fiasco was even less likely to work with tobacco or other substances...
thus was 'born' the war on drugs, and creative end runs around the Constitution, such as broadening the commerce clause to cover almost everything, and giving police powers to federal bureaucrats.
 
aerocontrols said:
Read this before you decide whether to make a serious attempt at this, Grammatron.

What on Earth does that have to do with Clinton being a conservative or not??
 
CFLarsen said:
What on Earth does that have to do with Clinton being a conservative or not??

Nothing at all. That wasn't what you asked him for.

A good portion of that discussion consists of various forum members trying to convince you that 'socialist' means one thing over here, and another across the pond.

Grammatron is attempting to (at your request) demonstrate the differences in the meaning of 'conservative' in a similar situation.

No doubt he'll read the thread I linked to and come to his own conclusion about whether trying to answer your question is worth the effort.
 
aerocontrols said:
Nevermind, Grammatron. You can just read this thread.

Or, preferably, respond to the points made in this thread.

If it isn't too inconvenient, of course.
 

Back
Top Bottom