Progress on Stephen Turoff...

[DeVega]

Well, if you can call it that. The Mods of our BC board all came over to the JREF and lurked! Thank-you to everyone who posted information and thoughts about Stephen Turoff "Psychic Surgeon" - after reading eveything it was agreed to post a warning to all the women on the Breast Cancer Support Board because a few of them were showing fairly keen interest after D's account. They were duly shocked. D herself is not going back.

Okay, it's progress of a kind. If it stopped even one more of our ladies being ripped off by this charletan I call that a good result - they are vulnerable, mothers, wives, sisters... They are coping with a life-threatening illness & certainly don't need ST's brand of crap.

Thanks again.
DeVega

PS: And thank-you also for being non-judgemental about it. Desperation makes people do dumb thing sometimes.

 

[phildonnia]

Well, I guess this goes under the 3% column.

 

[DeVega]

Que? Sorry Phildonnia, not sure what 3% you are

talking about?

 

[LostAngeles]

Oh, back about when I joined, there was a discussion going on where either Randi or the mods had said that only 97% of the forum topics contributed to the JREF's mission. So there was a plan to split the forum, but they ended up deciding against that and adjusted the rules and member agreement.

Having helped to save women from Turoff definitely would have gone in the 3% that contributes to the JREF mission. Which, if y'all don't mind me saying, nice job.

 

[Pragmatist]

Well, if you can call it that. The Mods of our BC board all came over to the JREF and lurked! Thank-you to everyone who posted information and thoughts about Stephen Turoff "Psychic Surgeon" - after reading eveything it was agreed to post a warning to all the women on the Breast Cancer Support Board because a few of them were showing fairly keen interest after D's account. They were duly shocked. D herself is not going back.

Okay, it's progress of a kind. If it stopped even one more of our ladies being ripped off by this charletan I call that a good result - they are vulnerable, mothers, wives, sisters... They are coping with a life-threatening illness & certainly don't need ST's brand of crap.

Thanks again.
DeVega

PS: And thank-you also for being non-judgemental about it. Desperation makes people do dumb thing sometimes.

You are more than welcome. And congratulate your mods from me at least too, because regardless of what they thought about what they read on here, the fact that they were prepared to look and consider the evidence is a big plus in my book - well done.

We are all aware that desperation makes people do dumb things. Many of us on here have done dumb things in the past, and some of us are even dumb enough to admit it - but only occasionally! Also I think I ought to make clear that most skeptics here are not intentionally judgemental about people who fall for scams, what really gets us riled up are the scammers themselves or the people who help to promote them.

Anyway, please wish all your members the best and tell them that we are rooting for them.

 

[Pragmatist]

Oh, back about when I joined, there was a discussion going on where either Randi or the mods had said that only 97% of the forum topics contributed to the JREF's mission. So there was a plan to split the forum, but they ended up deciding against that and adjusted the rules and member agreement.

Having helped to save women from Turoff definitely would have gone in the 3% that contributes to the JREF mission. Which, if y'all don't mind me saying, nice job.

Err...slight contradiction there, I think you meant 3% in the first paragraph as well!

 

[The Mighty Thor]

DeVega,

Thanks for the update. What your mods have done is wonderful.

Have a look at http://www.quackwatch.org/ and you will see how widespread medical frauds are. It's sad, but at least people are trying to combat the abuse.

Well done!

 

[LostAngeles]

Err...slight contradiction there, I think you meant 3% in the first paragraph as well!

D'oh

 

[Filippo Lippi]

The glw works with a woman who just started a relationship with a professional "psychic healer." Said PH is trying to cure someone's colon cancer, but is failing (no surprise there). The explanation given for the failure is that the sufferer is also a healer and is somehow "passing the healing on to others."

The glw refuses to tell her co-worker what a crock that all is and sits there politely listening to the latest tales of "wondorous cures." I won't be so polite if it is mentioned when I have to pick them all up from their Christmas party.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

The glw works with a woman who just started a relationship with a professional "psychic healer." Said PH is trying to cure someone's colon cancer, but is failing (no surprise there). The explanation given for the failure is that the sufferer is also a healer and is somehow "passing the healing on to others."

The glw refuses to tell her co-worker what a crock that all is and sits there politely listening to the latest tales of "wondorous cures." I won't be so polite if it is mentioned when I have to pick them all up from their Christmas party.

I'd use capitals for the GLW, if I were you -- just to be on the safe side. Never upset folk whose food you might eat

 

[tim]

I know of Turoff. He used to run a clinic in the UK - I don't know if he still does. The man's a fraud and a charlatan. Psychic surgery really pisses me off bigtime. I've seen film of Turoff "removing" a cancerous tumour from a patient. He makes me very, very angry.
Anyone who goes after this bastard is a hero in my eyes.

 

[Pragmatist]

I know of Turoff. He used to run a clinic in the UK - I don't know if he still does. The man's a fraud and a charlatan. Psychic surgery really pisses me off bigtime. I've seen film of Turoff "removing" a cancerous tumour from a patient. He makes me very, very angry.
Anyone who goes after this bastard is a hero in my eyes.

We were discussing this in another thread just a week or so ago. Here's the link.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48912

And I bumped it for you too.

 

[RPG Advocate]

I'm not sure that the warning posted is communicating the correct message, which is that patients with breast cancer (or any disease) shouldn't spend their money on treatments that haven't been through double-blind tests and replicated after being published in peer-reviewed journals. I understand that these people are desperate, but that is just all the more reason to make the message as clear as possible. For instance:

Originally posted by jasc-anne
I am a little alarmed at what I found and feel it is only right that I post here so that people can make in informed decision before taking any alternatiove/complimentary medicine path. I am not saying that people shouldn't follow whatever path they feel is right for them but just want to point out some of the dangers that may lurk behind these therapies.

[ Source ]

This seems to give the message that "some" alternative therapies have (non-psychosomatic/emotional) benefits. With this kind of reasoning, they will just fall for scam after scam. If it isn't Turoff, it will be someone else. No one deserves that. This snippet from the posted that prompted all this explains what I mean:

Originally posted by Debra
then again maybe it will be a combination of everything - chemo, faith healer, diet and psychic surgeon - who knows as long as they are shrinking what the hect ah?

[ Source ]

Even though Debra may be getting an emotional benefit, it is really worth not directly confronting the issue of the alt-med (and in Debra's case, faith healing) scams? Sugar-coating the message in an attempt to be "accepting" won't get them better any faster.

 

[DeVega]

I see what you are saying RPG

With the greatest respect I think that in terms of our board, the issue is best now left alone. I know these women pretty well, I've been on the board for 3 years - it is not a moderated discussion panel but rather a place for the women to go and air their fears in a dregree of comfort and security - with other women who know how they feel and exactly what they are talking about. Currently on the board we have a lady who is likely to die in the next few days - we are all braced for this.

We cannot tell them how to progress with their cancer journey - nor would we be arrogent enough to say we know better than they. I also think that there is a difference between going for something complimentary, like acupuncture, shiatsu or even reki (which I personally think is particularly suspect) and going to someone like Turoff who could potentially do them serious harm.

We (the mods) had a behind-the-scenes discussion before posting that warning message. We did not want the woman involved to feel singled-out or mocked - she has enough to cope with - if she left our community in anger or with hurt feelings we would lose touch and no longer be able to offer her support. The 'warning' was couched in deliberately soft terms. A few women who had expressed semi-serious interest in Turoff were emailed or called privately.

Thanks for your concern - but by and large they are all sensible individuals - in all the time I have been on the board this is the first time such a situation has arisen. I don't consider someone going for any other complimentary therapy to be being "ripped off" (despite my personal feelings on its efficacy) in quite the same way.

Best
DeVega

 

[DeVega]

Oh BTW...

[Quote}
Even though Debra may be getting an emotional benefit, it is really worth not directly confronting the issue of the alt-med (and in Debra's case, faith healing) scams? Sugar-coating the message in an attempt to be "accepting" won't get them better any faster.

Some of them aren't going to get better. That's the bottom line.

DeVega

 

[RPG Advocate]

DeVega, I completely understand where you're coming from here. It's an extremely thorny issue. I think it has wider implications than this specific situation, as we try to balance the need for rationality with respect for the suffering. This has broader implications than your forum. A discussion of the specific problems with regard to the general issue of rationalism in support communities for the ill deserves a broader discussion. As such, I've started a seperate thread in this section so that what I have to say doesn't derail this thread.

I apologize if I came off rude. It's difficult to ask tough questions without being perceived that way, even without intending to do so.

 

[DeVega]

Thanks RPG...

...and I'm sorry if I came across as defensive in any way ( I guess maybe I AM a bit defensive of the ladies!) You were not rude at all, perhaps I was a bit erm... prickly! - Nuff said...

I think it IS a big and emotive issue as you said. The fact that it is so emotive and touches so many lives is what makes approaching it so difficult. It touches so many people.


All best
DeVega