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Private School and Taxes

CSX2

New Blood
C
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
21
My wife and I are seriously considering private school for our seven year old daughter this year. After visiting the school and talking to the parents of other students we are very impressed. However, the tuition is quite steep. We can afford it but were wondering if there are any federal or state (we live in Maryland) tax deductions allowed for private school expenses.

I know I could go to the IRS web site or pick up a tax booklet but they always make my brain hurt. Anyone know the answer from experience?
 
I've had both my children in private school. One now attends Dartmouth college. She would not have been accepted there had she attended the public schools in my area. I even teach at the same private school my younger daughter attends. The only tax breaks I know of are from certain areas in Vermont, where the small towns pay for your kids to attend public school, and give you the money to attend private if you choose.

I've given up a lot for my daughters to attend private school. But, it has been worth it. After awhile you figure out the extra fancy car would have just become old anyway. But the person your child becomes is forever. When my daughter decided to attend prep school (Westover School for Girls in Middlebury CT) I felt she was attending the best high school in the world. She loved it too. We got a break then because most prep schools offer great scholarships. You can make a lot of money and still qualify, very few students actually pay the full amount. Plus, once she proved an asset to the school, other private alumni money came our way. Even the private elementary school I teach at has scholarshipmoney.

The best part is having more of a say in your childs education. The public school really doesn't care if your kid stays or not. The private school, I can call the head of school at home anytime. All the parents have her home number, and she always has time to listen and take action.

The down side is your child will be "left out" a bit by the other neighborhood kids who attend public school. But, if you make the effort you can get your child together with other kids from the school. Just the fact that any parent is willing to shell out the money shows they at least care that much about thier child.

Oh, and as a teacher, I'm paid less, but I have so much less stress than I did teaching public school! I am a better teacher. Class size, as a teacher that means the world to me!
 
Thanks for the reply kittynh.

I did some research and, as you implied, there are no deductions available at either the state (at least in Maryland) or federal level for private school tuition. There is one possible exception that involves a certain kind of trust but I was quickly lost in reading the details and will have to defer to a specialist to understand it.

Your comments on the quality of the private school education and the long term benefits really struck a chord and reinforced my opinion that this would be a good move. Though fancy cars don't interest me much I may have to wait awhile for my {game show prize announcer voice/on} Brand New Boat! {game show prize announcer voice/off}.

My daughter is entering second grade this year and I have been a classroom volunteer dad since Pre-K. I have seen the public school system up close and participated. I think there are some wonderful teachers in the system but they have an incredible burden to bear. I witnessed teachers bogged down with administrative tasks that take away from teaching time. I've watched as class sizes slowly creep upward. And even at these young ages I've seen students with terrible manners and discipline problems that disrupt learning activities. I think teaching is a tough enough job without having to deal with all these distractions that detract from a positive learning environment.

I think the decision is made.

Time to sharpen my pencil and get on with a budget review...
 
I was just thinking

If all the money parents spent on private school were used in the public school system, wouldn't that help improve education for everyone? The only private schools around here are religious based anyway, so I won't pay extra to deprive my kids of science courses. Most of the catholic schools fall under public schools around here and get tax funding. That's fine too.

I'm not worried about the public school system where I live, although I found Lacombe county schools were better and had better teachers when I was a kid. In Red Deer I got a biology teacher as my chemistry teacher, and we didn't even cover some of the stuff that was on the final exam. I asked about it, and I got that lame excuse. It's hardly fair that my marks are lowered because of the teacher's lack of knowledge on the subject. Isn't there some kind of content coverage provided to teachers for what kids are expected to learn in that course?

Anyways, I just hear about how some public schools are really faultering in some places, and could benefit with money for better teachers, extra programs, etc.

It doesn't seem fair that some kids get better opportunities while others are left behind because of money instead of ability.
 
It isn't FAIR, but it's reality. The public school in town told me to take my kid to a private school when she became "too bright". she was bored to death, and "asked too many questions". In a classroom of 35 kids and one teacher, I could see her point. In a classroom of 20 kids and 2 teachers she was happy. My youngest has severe dyslexia. Being in a rural area, her only option was to be sent to a "wharehouse" boarding school at age 7 - not enough special education teachers. The private school has a small enough class size that they don't mind spending the extra time. Plus, I pay for 10 hours private tutoring a week from an expert in this disability who teaches at the private (all boys:( ) school for dyslexics down the road.

You can fight the system, but when it's your child you don't have enough years. NH has a school crisis, where the Supreme Court has been fighting the legislature for years over school funding.

In Vermont, people and businesses aren't even allowed to give money to their local school. It has to go to a state pot, where it can be evenly doled out. That is because rich towns had more free stuff.

My eldest is now a very happy well educated child attending an Ivy League school and looking forward to being a productive part of society. NASA paid for her freshman internship and sent her to Hawaii to give a speech. so many things have been opened up for her because she went to private school. She even spend a free semester as an exchange student in Jordan (before all this mess). She would have been a great asset to a public school, but the money has to go to the kids in need. Those not struggling get short changed.
 
So, a public school for more advanced learners may help? It's only fair since struggling kids get help in the public system. My son has tourettes and goes to a special program where he learns at his own pace and there's more hands on learning. He's two grades ahead in math, but still has fits of anger for small reasons.

Parents shouldn't have to pay more to make sure bright kids live up to their full potential, and kids whose parents can't afford private school would at least then have access.

I can see what you mean. It stinks, but how do you get a school with more advanced courses?

In high school they at least separate diplomas so that a kid can get an advanced diploma here. The courses are harder and more challenging. I found math 33 so boring. Math 30 was the more advanced course, and much better. I don't even want to know what english 33 would have been like. I got an A in english 30 (was a looong time ago)

I can't complain too much, since the system here is pretty good it seems. I don't really know what public systems are like in other countries.

It's nice to know there are parents like you who recognize and encourage your children's abilities. I just wish it was easier for all kids with great potential to be able to have the same opportunities.

Kudos to you for putting you kids firts like that! Parents like you are gems!:)
 
Thanks. My brother and his kids live in Canada. He can easily afford private school, but the public schools are so superior there isn't the slightest need. He spends the money on piano lessons and ski lessons for the kids.

Being a teacher myself, Iknow the difference between a public school class size of 32, and the luxury of a private school class with a max of 10 to 1. I think most teachers would gladly accept their low pay, if they had smaller class sizes and more freedom.
 
I am going through the same thing at the moment myself. My (soon to be) 5 year old is starting school next year, and one look at the state school conviced us to send him to private school. He is already enrolled in a private school from Year 4 to 12 it was only 1 - 3 that he was going to go to state school anyway.

The one drawback - almost all the private schools are connected to one religion or another. The more exclusive (and expensive $$$) GPS ones at least are flexible - but he still has to go to religion classes. We have told them we are agnostic - and they seem OK, they just want him (and us) to respect their beliefs. We will as long as they respect ours. (Which they do seem to - time will tell).

Is it the same in other countries - are the private schools connected to religions?
 
The majority of private schools here operate under the auspices of one of the major religions, but there are also some community schools which are privately operated, along with Montessori and Steiner schools.

That said, our society is generally more secular than that of the US and this seems to be reflected in even our private schools (where many of the students are from non-religious families) - there isn't a whole lot of religion taught at our non-fundamentalist private schools, and our private schools must teach the same core curriculum as our public schools.

Similarly, we have publicly funded specialist schools and specialist education programmes.

I find the trend towards additional tutoring outside of school really disturbing, especially in primary school. Once intended as a short-term boost to help students get on top of subjects where they were below average, it's now beginning to be seen by some parents as a necessary part of their children's education.

I think - however - that it's as difficult to compare the US education system with that of countries which have a socialised education system as it is to compare the US health care or welfare system with that of countries where those systems are socialised. It's comparing apples and oranges.
 
Reprise - thanks for the perspective, - in NSW do you also have the so-called GPS (Greater Public Schools) as in QLD? THe GPS schools here include the only private non-religious school that I know of....Bris Boys Grammar
 
Private school sucks. Go public education, stay public education. Please, think of Yahweh, public education is what keeps rakin' in a good 40% of the net income in his home.
 
One thing to consider (and this is the argument I have used against home-schooling to my sister) is that in a private school it is more likely that your child will run into fewer different kinds of people. you can talk about class size all you want, but when your kid gets out in the world and has to work with different kinds of people, they will be at a disadvantage for not having had contact with all kinds of people. If all your children run into in a private school are people of one particular faith or high income bracket, then how will your child be later out "there" with everyone else? The argument that "the neighbor kids don't go there" or "she has other friends" is not really valid because you live in a neighborhood with people more or less like you (income and status and education) and your child's friends were chosen by other criteria. Being forced to share a classroom and playground with people you might not have chosen yourself is good practice for being in the real world.

If I were going to send my children to a private school, they would have to convince me first that they would meet kids of every social/income level and have a reasonably diverse population. The only exception to this is if I felt that my children were in danger of bodily harm by attending the (very large and diverse) public high schools in my area. Otherwise, put the kids out in the real world and let them struggle with it and learn. They'll be better for it.

If you truly think your kids will get a lousy education, or you have special needs kids, then I would probably do the same as you. but I think public schools can get a bad rap pretty easily. I'm the product of a public school system from a blue-collar town with 1200 students in the high school, and me and my siblings are doing just fine.

Frink


Frink
 
And another thing to consider:

There is no way to generalize one type of school versus another.

In some areas there are wonderful public schools (even in the USA)... and being a private school does not automatically make it better...

PLUS... what may make a school good one year may change... and it could get worse the next (a highly regarded independent parochial school had a mass exodus of students after the head mistress left --- the series of replacements apparently have not fixed whatever made the head mistress leave... I do not know the details, but there are a couple of the former students in my daughter's grade level at her school).

Sometimes even a school (public or private) will have a program that will not fit a child. Here we have a variety of public school choices, from traditional to alternative (Summerhillian type... very hippie like). While one of my kids would have thrived in the alternative school, another one would have been completely lost.

Just for my sanity I had all three kids go to the same elementary school (which in the last 12 years of having kids there, has changed from a backwater dustbin regular ed. program but with a top-notch special ed. team for my disabled child --- to one of the most requested schools in the area for regular ed. kids). It is conceivable that each child could go to a different high school.

There are also different flavors of private schools (Montessori, Waldorf, parochial, liberal, rigorous... etc.). Even within a certain type there are variations in quality --- especially when there are several of the same type (I've heard various critiques of different schools that all call themselves "Montessori").

Never ever judge a school by what the sign is out front... go inside and get to know the people. Also get to know what would be the best fit for your child. Try to fit the school to the child, not to the parent.
 
well, I wish there was a public school here that reflected the world I expect my kids will work and live in.

Let's face it, we may pass by a heroin addict, but we won't be working side by side with one.

Some work places have security, but our public school has two full time police officers to break up fights and protect the teachers.

Lst year the public high school in our little town had two car bombs, the bombs only blew up cars, but the kids had read how to do it on the internet and thought it would be fun to try.

My neighbors kid had the fun of finding a kid hanging in the bathroom (he cut him down, he was ok), and after that none of the bathrooms have doors. And homosexuals get beat up in the real world, but for the most part the ones I work with and know socially do not fear that if it "gets out" they will be beat up at work everyday.

I say let's make school more like the real world.
 
speaking of the real world.

There are no minorities at the local high school. Well, there are some Jewish kids, and some gay children.

My daughters high school had kids from over 20 countries. There were also poor children, as they are commited to providing inner city scholarships that pay for everything ( the culture clash between Black Americans and the Princess from Ghana was very interesting). She was able to go to Jordan on an exchange program for free - airfare and all. Just flying Royal Jordanian Airways was an education, to say nothing of living with a Muslim family. Her roommate for her last few years at school was a Jordanian, so she could practice her Arabic. Are we rich to pay for this, no. You fill our forms and pay what the school determines you can afford (it's going to hurt, but it's a fair system). She was also able to participate in her chosen sport, kayaking.

Living in the country I really did want her to experience the world, not just backwoods New Hampshire. There are actually many many boarding/day schools close to where I live. The Putney school is a great example, where children come from around the world to learn, and the local kids who attend get a real world education.
 
at the local high school the girl from South Africa would not be in the picture...
 
good points, kittynh

Good points you make about some schools. I agree that if there is a dangerous feeling to the schools, where kids are more worried about their safety than they are focused on their work and social life, and police have to have a presence to keep things in line, then it's time to move or investigate private schools. I would avoid putting my children in situations where they felt threatened like that. Fortunately, there are plenty of other school systems in my area that I could move to, not everyone has that option.

One of the things you mention happening may be isolated enough to be a learning exercise and not a threat to their lives, like the heroin dealer. The fact is that sometimes you DO work next to a heroin dealer - I know someone who worked for a professional software company who was a crack addict, believe it or not, and was in and out as an employee over a period of a couple years. How about alchoholics? Are they worse or better to work next to?

But you're right, I agree with you wholeheartedly that there is a point where enough is enough. If we get to that point, then we will be out looking for other options. And I'm not just agreeing because I'm a nerdy professor and your avatar shows you as a gorgeous babe.

Do you have any proposals to "fix" the public school problems that you see? Are the schools too lenient to troublemakers, allowing them to rule the school, and the administrators too afraid to do anything? Does the school itself lend itself to problems, in that it has lots of dark hallways and stairways, etc.? I know other high schools that removed doors from bathrooms because of liability issues. The schools are still liable for problems.

I truly wish the best for all public schools and wonder if just getting rid of people who don't want to be there is the answer. At first it would be hard and parents would fight it. but once it was done, it could serve as an example. I remember that movie with Morgan Freeman (what was it called?) being a great idea. Get rid of the people who cause the problem people. I know it's not that easy, but it should be. (For that matter, teachers who are problems should also be dumped, but I KNOW it's not easy to do that.)

Frink
 
This is a really interesting thread for me. We don't have to think about public/private schools for a while yet (the Littlest Peach will be 19 mo. on Friday), but the Mr. and I have talked about it a bit this past year.

I've worked in the public schools in a few different places (IL, CA and here in Denver). I am not convinced that will be what's best for my daughter. We've been talking off and on about homeschooling also. I'm not sure that's what is best for either my daughter or (selfishly, I admit) me.

This is the first year that school vouchers are in use here in CO, so our tax dollars are being used to support all kinds of schools...from public to Catholic, fundie to Montessori. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that either - we didnt' vote for them, but vouchers passed anyway, so for the time being (and until we finally leave Denver) we're stuck with them.
 
I wish I knew a fix. When I lived in Manitowoc Wisconsin the public schools were wonderful. The high school had a college track, vocational track - most of the kids did not choose to go on to college from that town. You could choose which public school you wanted your child to attend, and even what teacher in the school. None of the teachers I met, and worked with, were bad. But there was always one more than another that "fit" for your child. They also had a program called GATE (gifted and talented education). Your child was nominated in second grade, and the parents had to pass a test to get the child in (they wanted parents that would be supportive of the extra work). There was a large Hmong population, talk about families with a work ethic! The town was blue collar down on their luck, but the PTA was attended by every parent. Grandparents and aunts and uncles showed up too. One dad of a child I taught always came when he was "out". He was always getting arrested for selling pot, or stealing a car...but when he was home he was at PTA meetings. He would even have me call him once a week in Green Bay when he was in prison.

Here, we have an education crisis. The courts and the state legislature are in a constant battle over funding schools. People voted in an anti tax governor, and now that he is really cutting and slashing they suddenly dislike him. There simply isn't the money, and there isn't any popular support for funding these schools. I would say that in Manitowoc the very PC saying, "It takes a village to raise a child" was true. The whole town looked out for each others children, and the school did too. They worked together. I felt I was treated like part of the family when I had a child in my classroom. I was invited to dinner by almost every family! I went too! I spent tons of my own money on supplies and even clothing for any child that didn't have gloves or a coat. Because I was allowed to really care.


But I have no clue how to make that happen here. Perhaps having no school choice but to bail to the private schools takes any pressure off the lone public school. I wish I could send my kids to the public school, and I willingly did so when I lived in Wisconsin.
 
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