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Practising medicine without a license

I'm bumping this thread because it's important. I urge everyone to check the link to the other thread that Thor posted. This is a case of serious and quite disturbing abuse and I honestly believe that lives are at risk here. Input from the medical experts on here would be both useful and appreciated. Thanks.
 
The Mighty Thor said:
I'd like to draw your attention to this thread about the psychic surgeon, Steven Turoff.

Is there actually a law in the UK such as "practising medicine without a license"? This guy seems to operate with impunity.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48912
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I think it depends more on the specific claims he makes.

If he actually claims to cure cancer he'd really get roasted by the authorities.

Claiming to cure other things when he isn't doing is more of a trading standards/fraud issue.

If he starts dispensing medical advise, particularly suggesting people take a course of treatement other than that recommended by their doctor then, as far as I am aware, that too is illegal.
 
I gave a lot of detail in the original thread that Thor linked to, but I will repeat some things here as it seems to have been missed.

I don't think he specifically claims to cure anything, that is not the real problem in this case. He only says that they "may get better".

He charges 25 UK pounds per "operation", but one reference says that he charged 200 pounds or more for one.

The crux of the problem in this case is that unlike other "psychic surgeons" (i.e. the phillipinos) he actually uses surgical instruments and breaks the skin.

From the accounts I've seen, one of them by a lady with cancer who is currently recommending him to other cancer sufferers on a breast cancer support site, he uses extreme force which causes significant bruising, and then cuts the skin with a scalpel to leave an actual scar. The point is that he draws real blood. He "treats" many people one after the other, uses the same instruments on all, has no sterile procedure whatsoever and the instruments are not even cleaned. He drapes an unsterilized cloth over the "operation" and apparently doesn't even wash his hands.

What concerns me is the risk of passing HIV/hepatitis and other blood borne infections from victim to victim (sorry I find it hard to think of them as "patients").

And if he is using sufficient force to cause major abdominal bruising, he could cause severe damage to someone with an abdominal pathology.

This isn't just some harmless con, and the risk is not confined solely to people not receiving treatment, it is that they are exposed to potential infection and possibly other serious injury.
 
Pragmatist said:
The crux of the problem in this case is that unlike other "psychic surgeons" (i.e. the phillipinos) he actually uses surgical instruments and breaks the skin.
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Yeah, I read that too in the other thread. Personally, I find it very hard to believe. I think this is some sort of parlor trick. The patient who, in the second link on the other thread, had a "heart problem" and was "operated on" would not really be able to see what the good psychic doctor was doing if he was operating on his chest, especially high up on the chest wall (lay flat and try craning your neck downwards to look at your sternum). This guy cannot possibly be "breaking the skin" with anything. He's using some sleight of hand.

I say we sign him up for the $1M challenge.

-TT
 
From the link Third twin posted it looks like Turoff's learned how to cover his backside with a catch-all disclaimer.

Unfortunately, there might not be much that can be done -- at least easily. I wouldn't be suprised if he's grown a bit adept at deflecting lawsuits over the years either. :(
 
ThirdTwin said:
Yeah, I read that too in the other thread. Personally, I find it very hard to believe. I think this is some sort of parlor trick. The patient who, in the second link on the other thread, had a "heart problem" and was "operated on" would not really be able to see what the good psychic doctor was doing if he was operating on his chest, especially high up on the chest wall (lay flat and try craning your neck downwards to look at your sternum). This guy cannot possibly be "breaking the skin" with anything. He's using some sleight of hand.

I say we sign him up for the $1M challenge.

-TT
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No, you misunderstand. In the case of the lady who is referred to in the first post, 3 women attended and were left with real scars and real bruising. In one of them the scar was bleeding. And the following day, there was a definite wound and it was still bleeding. Obviously of course he doesn't really open the body and do anything inside, but he does scratch the surface of the skin, and in some cases actually cuts and draws blood. It's only a superficial wound, but my concern is blood borne contamination.

This is clearly an "evolution" of the technique into physical reinforcement by this particular person.
 
Pragmatist said:
No, you misunderstand. In the case of the lady who is referred to in the first post, 3 women attended and were left with real scars and real bruising. In one of them the scar was bleeding. And the following day, there was a definite wound and it was still bleeding. Obviously of course he doesn't really open the body and do anything inside, but he does scratch the surface of the skin, and in some cases actually cuts and draws blood. It's only a superficial wound, but my concern is blood borne contamination.

This is clearly an "evolution" of the technique into physical reinforcement by this particular person.
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Okay, then you're right. He's definitely doing something that is involving breaking the skin. And, I agree; there should be some healthcode that he is violating if this is the case.

-TT
 
ThirdTwin said:
Okay, then you're right. He's definitely doing something that is involving breaking the skin. And, I agree; there should be some healthcode that he is violating if this is the case.

-TT
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I think it is common assault or GBH in the UK.
 
Benguin said:
I think it is common assault or GBH in the UK.
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I think the charge would be ABH or unlawful wounding.

I suspect that the defence that the victim consented wouldn't be available here as there's no recognised medical procedure being followed (technically, any surgery could be said to constitute ABH or wounding, but surgeons are allowed to operate on the grounds that the patient consents to the operation). For example the case of R v. Brown (House of Lords, 1993) states that sado-masochism between consenting adults is an offence if it causes ABH or wounding.
 
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