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Polygraph tests on sex offenders

Saad

New Blood
S
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Jan 18, 2009
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There is an article on BBC that I read today which was quite scary. The article is called Lie tests tried on sex offenders (Since I have less then 15 posts, I would be grateful if someone could post a link).

Sex offenders will be made to take lie detector tests as part of probation conditions when they are freed from prison, the Ministry of Justice says.
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The article indicates that in the UK it seems that rather then being investigating tools, polygraphs are to become a sort of evidence as this will be used to assess whether they appear to be guilty or not.

Professor Don Grubin, who will carry out the tests, said the aim of this and other measures was to prevent new sex offenses from being committed.
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It seems things with little or no scientific backing are going to be making decisions that can be life changing. :boggled:

Pam Hibbert, assistant director of policy at children's charity Barnardos, said the tests would "increase public confidence" that sex offenders were complying with supervision, staying away from schools and playgrounds and living and sleeping where they are supposed to.
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This seems to assume that increasing public confidence can justify using any measures to try and stop the sex offenders. This brings me to the question, why do people think that it is justifiable to put in something that has no or little evidence that it works?
 
That seems poor reasoning. Many victims of sexual assault fail polygraph tests. That isn't to say they are lying, it's that polygraphs of sensitive subjects are even more unreliable than they normally are.
 
If your missus takes offence during sex does that make you a sex offender?
Maybe they should ask the machine that, and see what it has to say.
 
It's a way of softening up public opinion.

First they came for the sex offenders, then they came for the benefit cheats... etc.

The Britisher Surveillance State is also piloting a nationwide scheme to use polygraphs on benefit claimants.

Perhaps one day we will see them on shops counters, along side the counterfeit-money-detecting machine, to make sure you're legally entitled to buy a loaf of bread!
 
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How to pass a Polygraph test despite being guilty of everything.
Before the test
1. Learn about control questions. These are irrelevant questions that find out how you react to stressful questions.
2. Put a stone in your shoe, or use some other method to be able to inflict mild pain on yourself without it being detected by a person who is looking for signs that you are doing so.

During the test
1. When a control question is asked inflict pain on yourself. This will increase your stress levels above the level when you lie.
2. When you asked 'did you have sex with <name of 5 year old girl you did have sex with> in the last week?', you can answer no with less stress than a control question.

Note 1. I am not an expert so there may be something else you need to do to pass the test. The good news is that if you ask around you should be able to find people who know more about the subject than I do.

Note 2. This information above is suitable for discussion purposes only. Any use over and above that is taken at your own risk.
 
Sounds to me like this is a result of "Professor Don Grubin" trying to guarantee himself a job...or does he have a financial interest in a polygraph device firm?

In the US, polygraphs are not admissable evidence in court, and this kind of program would be subject to a legal challenge and rejected--assuming it wasn't cancelled due to pre-implementation publicity.

Good luck to the British equivalent of the ACLU!!
 
rjh01 said:
During the test
1. When a control question is asked inflict pain on yourself. This will increase your stress levels above the level when you lie.
2. When you asked 'did you have sex with <name of 5 year old girl you did have sex with> in the last week?', you can answer no with less stress than a control question.

Note 1. I am not an expert so there may be something else you need to do to pass the test. The good news is that if you ask around you should be able to find people who know more about the subject than I do.

Note 2. This information above is suitable for discussion purposes only. Any use over and above that is taken at your own risk.
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You'd think that would work. The shifting required to exert pressure on the rock in your shoe would most likely set off the pressure sensor in the "ass pad" and alert the examiner that an attempt was being made to circumvent the test.

I'm not defending the veracity of the test, but I would bet every dollar I've ever made that I've gone through more polygraph tests than 99 percent of people on this planet. I know how they work better than most. And I still don't understand why they're used in situations like this, where something hasn't happened, but might. It's why screening counter-intelligence polygraphs don't work. I'm living breathing proof that they are wrong.
 
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JihadJane said:
It's a way of softening up public opinion.

First they came for the sex offenders, then they came for the benefit cheats... etc.

The Britisher Surveillance State is also piloting a nationwide scheme to use polygraphs on benefit claimants.
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Well, I don't find myself agreeing with you very often but I'm with you on this subject.
Once we start allowing this kind of crap, where will it end.

BTW. I'm dumbfounded by the amount of surveillance that the Brits allow in their society. With the latest developments being: if you apply for civil service job, you are required to answer questions about what kind of porn you watch.
If you are later found to have "extreme" tastes, you lose your job.
The government asking questions like that is positively Orwellian in my view.

Now take that trend and add "lie detectors" to the mix.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
You'd think that would work. The shifting required to exert pressure on the rock in your shoe would most likely set off the pressure sensor in the "ass pad" and alert the examiner that an attempt was being made to circumvent the test.
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I don't know about you, but I can make a small movement of my big toe without having to move my ass.
 
I read that one method to screw up the test was to clench your anus during the control questions. Or Kegel exercises. Or simply flexing your abdominal muscles--hell, pilots do that to keep their blood pressure up when doing loops or something.

And I'd have thought that the fact that all the successful self-confessed double agents passed polygraph tests numerous times would be enough to discredit them, but I guess there are always hopefuls ready to put their faith in technology despite all the evidence. I wonder if the British would like to buy some ionic air purifiers from me? Guaranteed to deionize the covalent molecules in air, creating a whole-air holeopathic oxygen flow through magnetism.
 
arthwollipot said:
I don't know about you, but I can make a small movement of my big toe without having to move my ass.
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It affects weight distribution, as anyone with a Wii Fit board can tell you. You'd have to move it enough to cause considerable difficulty and in my opinion that would definitely register.

Of course, you could actually just BE a complete sociopathic bastard that's so comfortable with betraying your country and molesting children that you have absolutely zero internal conflict with the questions you're asked.

Self-centered pricks like Aldridge Ames and Robert Hanssen with no moral compass whatsoever. They each took screening polygraphs multiple times in their careers at CIA and FBI, respectively. Aces every time.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
It affects weight distribution, as anyone with a Wii Fit board can tell you. You'd have to move it enough to cause considerable difficulty and in my opinion that would definitely register.
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Only if you have your weight on your feet. If your legs are relaxed, you can easily move your toes. And anyway, is there some rule that says you aren't allowed to fidget during a lie detector test? What does the "ass pad" tell the people running the test, anyway?
 
I am fairly certain that he use of these tests required parliamentary approval. I therefore assume that MPs would have no problem being hooked up to them while speaking in the house.

Lying to the House of Commons is an offence and I am sure no MP ever does it. I am therefore certain that MPs would be delighted to demonstrate just how foolproof these machines are.
 
politas said:
Only if you have your weight on your feet. If your legs are relaxed, you can easily move your toes. And anyway, is there some rule that says you aren't allowed to fidget during a lie detector test? What does the "ass pad" tell the people running the test, anyway?
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If you fidget, the examiner will tell you to sit still. I had to go through about 35 of these over the course of three days, each one being about 45 minutes long. So I tested it. I wiggled my toes - both feet. The examiner knew I was moving. Both feet were flat on the floor, no weight on them at all.

Anyway, I can't really speak to what the "ass pad" is supposed to tell the examiner, or what the fidgeting rule is. I don't really know any of that, and I would guess those things are more to keep the subject uneasy than anything else. I would speculate that it's to deny people from using 'tics' a lot of folks have when they're nervous, like tapping feet or shifting in your seat.
 
Joey - I knew that polygraphs were bunk but your perspective is interesting still. If you don't mind me asking, why did you have to pass so many tests in so little time?
 
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