placebo effect

[gecko]

whew...been awhile since I saw this place...

Anyway, I was thinking of something...what does everyone here think of the placebo effect? Not trying to start a war, but the entire nature of it seems a little strange to me...know what I mean? The mind's control over the physical body? And then it just leads me to wonder if some people have more control over there body in that way...and then if you look at that...is there a way to increase that control?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Not trying to start a war, but the entire nature of it seems a little strange to me...know what I mean? The mind's control over the physical body?

But this seems to be a strange thing to puzzle over. The control of the mind over the body? Sure. If my mind wants to my body to lift my little finger, my body raises my little finger, and if my mind wants to type "aardvark", then my body will type "aardvark" --- look, my mind affects my body! My body breathes in and out for me automatically: but I can still hold my breath --- my mind affects my body. If I'm frightened, my heart beats faster --- my mind affecting my body again. Let me think of my favorite woman wearing no clothes --- oh look, my mind just affected my body.

Is there really anything stranger about the placebo effect?

Of course the mind affects the body. That's what it's for.

 

[Zep]

The amusing thing about the placebo effect is that people like Kumar, and presumably other homeopaths, believe that the placebo effect is some real substance that you can actually "bottle" in water and sugar pills, then dose people on it and make them better! The level of understanding there is beyond dumbfounding...

 

[AOK Tiger]

Gecko,

I am not professing to know “how” the effect works but the body does increase the rate of production of hormones when in crisis or for specific requirements.

It does this without conscious direction from us (unlike the raising of the finger).

Most problems that humans have CAN be “cured” by what already exists in their own body. Why do some peoples bodies destroy cancers easily and others succumb.. do we increase these “abilities” when our minds are convinced we ARE helping .. it “seems” that we do.

The obvious way to enhance the placebo effect is to get people to convince themselves that they can cure themselves, they can generate more t-cells and hormones to combat problems.. I assume this should trigger a placebo effect as strong as “special water” would ?

 

[Rolfe]

People talk a lot about the "placebo effect" as if it were a real physical thing. In fact, most of the time it isn't. Yes, it's true that in conditions where anxiety is playing a significant part in how bad the patient feels, then anything that decreases the anxiety (such as the belief that someone is in control) will have a real, beneficial effect.

However, the overwhelming bulk of the "placebo effect" is simply a combination of coincidental recovery (patient was going to improve anyway), and wishful thinking (patient isn't really any better, but has persuaded himself, or been persuaded, that he is). And that is what has to be controlled for in proper medical trials.

Rolfe.

 

[Donks]

However, the overwhelming bulk of the "placebo effect" is simply a combination of coincidental recovery (patient was going to improve anyway), and wishful thinking (patient isn't really any better, but has persuaded himself, or been persuaded, that he is). And that is what has to be controlled for in proper medical trials.

Rolfe.

And observer bias.

 

[Rolfe]

And observer bias.

I'm including that in "wishful thinking".

Rolfe.

 

[Donks]

I'm including that in "wishful thinking".

Rolfe.

Oh.

 

[MRC_Hans]

There is a special brand of placebo effect: The one in Double Blind Placebo Controlled (DBPC) studies.

In this context, the placebo effect is everything that is not the effect of the drug under test.

Two groups of patients are given drug, and prossibly other treatment, but the "drug" one group is given is one known to have no effect on the disease in question. Neither the patients nor the practitioners know who gets what (hence double blind).

In such a trial, it is normal to see patients that turn out to belong to the placebo group also benefit from the treatment, because they don't just get drug, they also get encouragement, lifestyle advice, etc.

So what you do (simplified) is you take the score of the placebo group, subtract that from the score of the verum group, and if something is left, that is the effect of the drug.

Hans