philosophy of freedom

10001

Thinker
10001
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
181
how is freedom measured?
how do we justify freedom?
what is freedom?

are we free? do we have the so called free will?

are animals other then humans which are free? in the wild truly free?

As a human
does having any kind of belief system automatically make you not free?

has anyone here ever thought... maybe... thought it self is in a way trapping your self into nonfreedom? (nonfreedom doesnt sound like a word.. but what the hack!)

But sometimes we need to think things through to gain somekind of freedom. sometimes these thoughts lead to further entrapment. But saooner or later doors will eventually open up.

Many people who post writings in forums such as this and others, endeavour to explore the freedom they posses. Does not mater what they are writing about/for.

In the end religion, philosophy, science etc etc are all remnants of struggle humanity has sawed to achieve this freedom we all seek.

every day each of you are ewntrapped in daily exposes and doses of wants and needs the society(which our selves have built) binded us with. some are for the advancement of mind and logical limitation. Some just redirects all the true goodness the good people tried to betow upon humanity.

why do we do the things we do? are we truly free by having choices to make. more and more and more choices and choices.

why can't religiouse people understand that if their God(whos ever it/he/? maybe) is the all powerful one. and everyone says theirs is the all powerful one. then maybe... just maybe ... they believe in the same God?

what ever scripture they attach them selves into, the book or the story told is written by a human/person. If it was written by a non human form it still was written for human understanding at the time, so that it is more easier for the people of that time can unsderstand.

If you are a non religiouse person, you are probnably more free then the religious one. You dont have to be a athiest or what ever. Eg if you are athiest why do you need to believe that there is no God(if athiest means against God belief the question remains the same), and state your selves as being one such person?
If you are a scientific person ... just remember science does not define anything permanantly. science is always improving.. people DISCOVER NEW scientific facts everyday.


So... what is freedom?
Do I now have more freedom because I can write this thread through internet. Or were humans more free when there was no computer and TV, therefore spent more time out doors with loved ones and friends?


just a thought...
 
At the time of Ho Hsu, people stayed where they were, not knowing anything else; they walked but did not know where they were going; filled themselves with food and were happy slapping their bellies to show their contentment. This was what the people had. Then came the sage. He brought the cringing and grovelling of the rituals and music and infected all under Heaven with his offer of benevolence and righteousness, which he said would comfort the hearts of all.

As a result the people desired and longed for knowledge, and warred against each other to gain the advantage. Nothing could stop them. All this was the fault of the sage.

- Chuang Tzu
 
10001 said:
  1. how is freedom measured?
  2. how do we justify freedom?
  3. what is freedom?
  4. are we free?
  5. do we have the so called free will?
  6. are animals other then humans which are free in the wild truly free?
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  1. With a dipstick.
  2. By sliding it all to the right, or left.
  3. Not sure, but I know New Freedom is an aid to mitigating the mess of menses.
  4. I am not free, I am expensive, but I can be had. ;)
  5. Yes, but I was fated to say that.
  6. Yes, they were born free. It isn't until you hunt them, kill them, shoot them, and try to have them mounted that the expense come in.

If you have any further questions, I am here for you.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
Yes, they were born free. It isn't until you hunt them, kill them, shoot them, and try to have them mounted that the expense come in.DR
Click to expand...


I'm sure Shemp, among others, would insist that the animals be mounted first. :D
 
10001 said:
how is freedom measured?
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This is a really interesting question. I'm afraid there is no good quantification criteria for freedom, along with other intangibles like Justice, Love, Goodwill and God. Everyone judges such things for themselves by their own personal criteria.
how do we justify freedom?
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It's simply intrinsically desirable for most human beings. We all value having automony to make our own choices the same way we value having good things to eat, beautiful mates, high status, etc.
what is freedom?
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Personally, I think that freedom is being allowed to be stupid. The freer a society, the more people are allowed to make choices that others consider stupid. A completely ideosyncratic (some would say stupid :) ) way of judging freedom, but it's mine.

are we free?
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Freedom is not an either/or state, it's a continuum. We all fall somewhere along that continuum - no one has complete freedom to do whatever they want. No one is more of a slave than a quadriplegic, dependent on others for everything short of breathing. No one gets to violate the laws of physics. No one has complete freedom to murder anyone else at will. Unjustified murder is forbidden in every society, though what constitutues 'justifiable' has varied tremendously from one culture to another. But anyone can decide at any time to violate that rule if they are willing to pay the price for their actions, typically we call them things like 'criminally insane' or 'suicide bombers'. We are all slaves to our cultural upbringing i.e. wage slaves, fashion slaves, etc.

do we have the so called free will?
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I think so. But, like many other such questions, there is no definitive proof one way or the other. At least, none that I've seen. My belief is not based on rational thought, but the irrational subjective feeling that I do have free will. My senses might be deceiving me. I could be wrong.
are animals other then humans which are free? in the wild truly free?
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Again, if we think of freedom as a continuum, then animals certainly fall somewhere within the extreme ends of the continuum with animals that live in the wild possessing more freedom than animals in captivity.

Interesting questions. I enjoyed the opportunity to express my thoughts. Thanks.
 
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