PETA and Foie Gras

[redfarmer]

I care a lot about food issues and occasionally follow the arguments of PETA, which tend to be insanity mixed with a little truth. So I couldn't help but notice their new campaign to pressure Dean & DeLuca to drop foie gras from their stores and distributors.

Then I read their issue statment on foie gras. Their reasoning seems to be that some farms producing foie gras keep their animals in inhumane conditions, therefore foie gras is always inhumane.

Incidentally, their own video on foie gras, while showing a few dead ducks without context, doesn't seem to show the ducks under any more stress than most factory farms and, in fact, seems to show the ducks in slightly better conditions than, say, cows and chickens from their other videos.

Just curious if anyone has any opinion on the foie gras controversy. PETA seems to be using a lot of rhetoric and very little actual facts, like usual. What do you think?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I think the issue is that the forced feeding involved in producing foie gras is considered cruel by some.

From wiki:

Animal rights and welfare groups such as PETA,[61] Viva!,[62] and the Humane Society of the United States[63] contend that foie gras production methods, and force feeding in particular, constitute cruel and inhumane treatment of animals. Specific complaints include livers swollen to many times their normal size, impaired liver function, expansion of the abdomen making it difficult for birds to breathe, death if the force feeding is continued, and scarring of the esophagus[citation needed]. PETA claims that the insertion and removal of the feeding tube scratch the throat and the esophagus, causing irritations and wounds and thus exposing the animal to risk of mortal infections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras#Controversy

 

[ehcks]

Yeah, the forced-feeding is my only problem with it.

Well, and it's gross.. Eww liver.

Elzar: Here you are, big spender. Foie gras and caviar.
Dr. Zoidberg: [sniffs it] Goose liver? Fish eggs? Feh! Where's the goose? Where's the fish?
Elzar: Hey, that's what rich people eat, the garbage parts of the food.
Dr. Zoidberg: I ate garbage yesterday, and it didn't cost me 300 dollars. I'm not paying! I bid you good day, sir!

 

[redfarmer]

PETA claims that the insertion and removal of the feeding tube scratch the throat and the esophagus, causing irritations and wounds and thus exposing the animal to risk of mortal infections.

The actual feeding isn't terribly cruel if it's done correctly. I have a video of Anthony Bourdain visiting a foie gras farm and witnessing a feeding. (Unfortunately, I can't post the URL yet because of my post number.) However, suffice it to say, he interviews a veterinarian who says that any contention there is damage being done to the esophagus is just false. Ducks have a tough lining in their throat to prevent damage.

As for the liver claims, bird livers are designed to take in fat like that. As long as the feeding is done properly, according to the vet, it does not damage the duck.

 

[RandFan]

I'm not sure they go well together. PETA and Fava beans with perhaps a nice Chianti would be better.

 

[Furcifer]

Based on what I know "the good stuff" comes from force feeding, but most of it is just harvested from birds gone to market. I know the best foie gras in Canada comes from Quebec and I've heard this is because they allow force feeding. They still have animal cruelty laws so I can only assume they've determined it's an acceptable practice.
That being said, I think PETA is inadvertently doing more harm than good. When everything is above board and in the open it's easier to manage and ensure people follow the rules. Drive is underground and every hilly billy in town will be trying to make a buck off of it, and doing it in a less humane way.

 

[RandFan]

The actual feeding isn't terribly cruel if it's done correctly. I have a video of Anthony Bourdain visiting a foie gras farm and witnessing a feeding. (Unfortunately, I can't post the URL yet because of my post number.) However, suffice it to say, he interviews a veterinarian who says that any contention there is damage being done to the esophagus is just false. Ducks have a tough lining in their throat to prevent damage.

As for the liver claims, bird livers are designed to take in fat like that. As long as the feeding is done properly, according to the vet, it does not damage the duck.

If you want to message me the link I'll post it.

BTW: I likely wouldn't eat it myself. I'm not a member of PETA and I do eat meat but I avoid certain things. I'm trying to avoid factory farming. I see many of their methods are purely for profit motive and otherwise unnecessary.

 

[RandFan]

Thanks for the link redfarmer

Anthony Bourdain on No Reservations, Foie Gras Not Cruel

Or:

 

[Meed]

I care a lot about food issues and occasionally follow the arguments of PETA, which tend to be insanity mixed with a little truth. So I couldn't help but notice their new campaign to pressure Dean & DeLuca to drop foie gras from their stores and distributors.

Then I read their issue statment on foie gras. Their reasoning seems to be that some farms producing foie gras keep their animals in inhumane conditions, therefore foie gras is always inhumane.

Incidentally, their own video on foie gras, while showing a few dead ducks without context, doesn't seem to show the ducks under any more stress than most factory farms and, in fact, seems to show the ducks in slightly better conditions than, say, cows and chickens from their other videos.

Just curious if anyone has any opinion on the foie gras controversy. PETA seems to be using a lot of rhetoric and very little actual facts, like usual. What do you think?

Since you didn't provide a link or a quote and seem like you might be a little biased against PETA, I have to ask if you're fairly representing their argument.

Yeah, PETA can be nutty at times. As a near vegan who cares about animals, I often find them embarrassing, counterproductive and over the top with some of their positions. But it's an easy trap to fall into to assume that all of their arguments and causes are insane. They aren't as crazy/illogical as some people seem to consider them and an issue shouldn't be dismissed simply because of PETA's reputation.

 

[theprestige]

As for the liver claims, bird livers are designed to take in fat like that. As long as the feeding is done properly, according to the vet, it does not damage the duck.

I wonder how much damage the duck suffers once its liver has been removed and ground up into a tasty spread.

 

[RandFan]

Since you didn't provide a link or a quote and seem like you might be a little biased against PETA, I have to ask if you're fairly representing their argument.

Yeah, PETA can be nutty at times. As a near vegan who cares about animals, I often find them embarrassing, counterproductive and over the top with some of their positions. But it's an easy trap to fall into to assume that all of their arguments and causes are insane. They aren't as crazy/illogical as some people seem to consider them and an issue shouldn't be dismissed simply because of PETA's reputation.

I provided a link above.

FWIW: I don't think all of PETAs arguments are irrational. I once championed their suggestions for more human forms of killing chickens only to be attacked on this forum. As liberal as it is, and it is, the majority hate PETA. But I think that their PR is so bad and so tone deaf (attacking kids singing the Oscar Meyer Wiener song?) that no one sees beyond the strident and shrill rhetoric and comically bad PR stunts.

I also wish they would renounce the terrorism and extremism and be transparent about their own euthanizing program. It does them no favors.

But yeah, you have a valid point.

 

[RandFan]

I wonder how much damage the duck suffers once its liver has been removed and ground up into a tasty spread.

It's given an artificial liver and sent to live in a retirement home with HD tv and a masseuse. It's not as bad as you make it sound.

 

[RandFan]

Serious Opinion:

I've watched the video and it seems reasonable. I'd need to see a response but as it is what I see in the video isn't cruel. I'm still not likely to eat foie gras though.

 

[Meed]

I provided a link above.

I was referring to a link to PETA's argument. The only link I see is to something else.

FWIW: I don't think all of PETAs arguments are irrational. I once championed their suggestions for more human forms of killing chickens only to be attacked on this forum. As liberal as it is, and it is, the majority hate PETA. But I think that their PR is so bad and so tone deaf (attacking kids singing the Oscar Meyer Wiener song?) that no one sees beyond the strident and shrill rhetoric and comically bad PR stunts.

I wholeheartedly agree. Most vegetarians and vegans I've known have not been PETA fans either.

On the topic of foi gras, I think it's inhumane, but then again, I think factory farming of animals is inhumane in general, so that is hardly a surprise. The argument is, of course, that foi gras is more inhumane than normal. I agree with this, but how much more (i.e. a significant or insignificant amount) appears to be debatable.

 

[fuelair]

Since you didn't provide a link or a quote and seem like you might be a little biased against PETA, I have to ask if you're fairly representing their argument.

Yeah, PETA can be nutty at times. As a near vegan who cares about animals, I often find them embarrassing, counterproductive and over the top with some of their positions. But it's an easy trap to fall into to assume that all of their arguments and causes are insane. They aren't as crazy/illogical as some people seem to consider them and an issue shouldn't be dismissed simply because of PETA's reputation.

I understand your point, but this is how it works for me: when any organization reaches a point where I have to fact check anything they say, they have reached the point that I do not have the time to bother with them. PETA reached that point a long time ago. They have never improved on that.

 

[RandFan]

I was referring to a link to PETA's argument. The only link I see is to something else.

Sorry.

On the topic of foi gras, I think it's inhumane, but then again, I think factory farming of animals is inhumane in general...

Interesting, BTW, I'm against many factory farming methods. And I've always been against foi gras for the reasons most are. However I watched the Bourdain video and I was not outraged by it. At all. Not that my sentiment is a valid basis for how we ought to treat animals. I just don't see anything morally shocking. The slaughtering of chickens in some of the videos I have seen has shocked me as have the slaughtering of pigs and cows. In the interest of full disclosure I was raised on a small farm and typically slaughtered dozens of chickens a year and I also worked on a diary and I've seen cows slaughtered and I've seen one pig slaughtered.

I think more people should see them slaughtered. There might be more vegans. I suspect so. We ought to make informed decisions.

...so that is hardly a surprise. The argument is, of course, that foi gras is more inhumane than normal. I agree with this, but how much more (i.e. a significant or insignificant amount) appears to be debatable.

It may be, watching the video I couldn't make that claim.

 

[Furcifer]

I understand your point, but this is how it works for me: when any organization reaches a point where I have to fact check anything they say, they have reached the point that I do not have the time to bother with them. PETA reached that point a long time ago. They have never improved on that.

^this

Too many times I've been mislead to believe something only to find out PETA isn't telling the whole story. That's why the OP sounded just about right, even without a link.

 

[The Don]

BTW, ducks do not provide foie gras, that comes only from, geese

 

[Travis]

All I know is I'm not eating it. They can claim it's not cruel all they want but I don't really buy it.

 

[Wildy]

BTW, ducks do not provide foie gras, that comes only from, geese

You'd best tell that to the French, since their legislation says that foie gras is made from the livers of either ducks or geese although they have to be fed through gavage.