Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

[CFLarsen]

Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Venezuela buying 100,000 guns

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Venezuela signed an agreement with Russia to buy 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles, formalizing a deal that has drawn sharp opposition from the United States.

The accord for the sale of the Kalashnikov AK-103 rifles was signed Tuesday in Caracas by Venezuelan Defense Minister Jorge Garcia Carneiro and Sergei Ladygin, the regional chief of Russia's state arms agency Rosoboronexport.

Garcia Carneiro told the state-run Bolivarian News Agency the cost will be $54 million and the first 28,000 rifles are to arrive in October.

But, wait:

U.S. President George W. Bush has said the United States is concerned the guns could fall into the hands of other groups, such as leftist Colombian rebels, and become a destabilizing force in the region. But Russian officials brushed aside the criticism, saying all along they would go ahead with the deal.

What happened to an armed militia, fighting for independence? Nah.... As long as we have a lot of guns in society, we won't have uprisings or violence. Everyone is just so much safer.

Really.

 

[Donks]

What happened to an armed militia, fighting for independence? Nah.... As long as we have a lot of guns in society, we won't have uprisings or violence. Everyone is just so much safer.

Really.

It's not the people on the street that's buying the guns, it's the government. The idea of the regular folks having guns is to defend themselves, including from the "leftist rebels" the governemnt might decide to give the guns to.

 

[CFLarsen]

Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

It's not the people on the street that's buying the guns, it's the government. The idea of the regular folks having guns is to defend themselves, including from the "leftist rebels" the governemnt might decide to give the guns to.

Isn't the government made up of people??

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Isn't the government made up of people??

Yes, yes it is.

 

[Donks]

Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Isn't the government made up of people??

How are the Colombian rebels part of the people of Venezuela?

 

[RandFan]

Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Isn't the government made up of people??

You don't quite get this whole "politics" thing do you!?

Yes, ALL governments ARE made up of people. So? Dictatorships, Monarchies, theocracies, communism, socialism, etc.. They all, oddly enough, are made up of people and will continue to do so untill we come up with a replacement.

The term "people" as in "power to the people" is defined in this sense as The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. So in this instance Donks is delineating...er... he is separating the ordinary people from the people in the government.

That governments are made up of people does not mean that the average person has any say so in his or her government. In the future when someone uses the term "people" try to imagine the common man and not the individuals that make up the government, 'k?

I hope this has been helpful

 

[CapelDodger]

Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

It's not the people on the street that's buying the guns, it's the government. The idea of the regular folks having guns is to defend themselves, including from the "leftist rebels" the governemnt might decide to give the guns to.

Local militias are regular folk, and might need to defend themselves from rightist rebels other governments might decide to give guns to. As the Nicaraguans found out.

The Venezualean rightists messed up their last coup, and with the FAL guns widely distributed amongst the reserve another one will be even more difficult. A very sound strategic move, I think.

 

[Donks]

Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Local militias are regular folk, and might need to defend themselves from rightist rebels other governments might decide to give guns to. As the Nicaraguans found out.

The Venezualean rightists messed up their last coup, and with the FAL guns widely distributed amongst the reserve another one will be even more difficult. A very sound strategic move, I think.

Yes, but the Colombians might not feel quite so happy about the Venezuelan governemnt giving guns to the Colombian rebels (from CFLarsen's link).

 

[CapelDodger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

Yes, but the Colombians might not feel quite so happy about the Venezuelan governemnt giving guns to the Colombian rebels (from CFLarsen's link).

I missed that bit. When did they do that?

 

[Donks]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

I missed that bit. When did they do that?

They haven't. That's Bush's concern, which is one of the points of this thread. Or at least it's one of the two snippets Larsen quoted.

 

[CapelDodger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

They haven't. That's Bush's concern, which is one of the points of this thread. Or at least it's one of the two snippets Larsen quoted.

Chavez's concern might be that guns might be provided to Venezuelan rightist rebels by the Columbian government. He might not be happy about that. On the other hand, he might be - maybe he thinks he might win a tussle with the Columbian government. It might be best to do it now, while the US is mighty distracted. He might think might is right, and right now. Or he might not.

 

[CFLarsen]

But isn't this a good thing? A population gets to be (even more) armed?

Come now, people. Say it: "'Tis A Good Thing".

..........right?

 

[Grammatron]

But isn't this a good thing? A population gets to be (even more) armed?

Come now, people. Say it: "'Tis A Good Thing".

..........right?

Only when you'll comprehand the difference between population/people and the government. Come on, you can do it, it's not that hard.

 

[CFLarsen]

Only when you'll comprehand the difference between population/people and the government. Come on, you can do it, it's not that hard.

Just answer the question. Don't come up with conditions.

This is a good thing, isn't it?

 

[RandFan]

Just answer the question. Don't come up with conditions.

"Conditions"? It's central to the question. {sheesh}

 

[dann]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. President George W. Bush has said the United States is concerned the guns could fall into the hands of other groups, such as leftist Colombian rebels, and become a destabilizing force in the region. But Russian officials brushed aside the criticism, saying all along they would go ahead with the deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since when has it become a genuine concern of the U.S. into whose hands a shipment of weapons might fall? After the Talibans? After Saddam?

No, wait, those were the hands that the USA placed the weapons in - the weapons didn't have to fall anywhere! (And, of course, they were never leftist ...)
Bush isn't worried about the Russian assault rifles falling into the hands of leftist Colombian rebels. He's upset because somebody sells weapons to a government that he wants to destabilize. That it just happens to be a democratically elected government and a democratically elected president, Hugo Chavez .... Well, who cares?!

(And, Claus, it's true. It's not a question of Chavez fulfilling an NRA Libertarian's dream that every man should be able to own his own handgun. If the weapons were going to be sold in retail, Bush wouldn't really mind. Hell, he might even consider it a way of arming the next coup against Chavez!)

 

[CFLarsen]

Re: Re: Peace will come to Venezuela now. Really!

"Conditions"? It's central to the question. {sheesh}

I am asking you - what is your opinion?

Surely, you are capable of stating your own opinion on whether or not it is a good thing that Venezuela buys 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia, without demanding I tell you what I think about government first?

People might think that you are either incapable of it, or are simply stalling.

Now, is it a good thing?

 

[CFLarsen]

(And, Claus, it's true. It's not a question of Chavez fulfilling an NRA Libertarian's dream that every man should be able to own his own handgun. If the weapons were going to be sold in retail, Bush wouldn't really mind. Hell, he might even consider it a way of arming the next coup against Chavez!)

That's not my point. I am simply asking gun-proponents if they think it is a good idea that a people are (even more) armed.

 

[dann]

That's not my point. I am simply asking gun-proponents if they think it is a good idea that a people are (even more) armed.

I know that's your point, but then you should acknowledge that there's an incongruity between your point and the AP report from Caracas.

The Danish army buys new weapons and ammo all the time, but that would not lead anybody to talk about, "As long as we have a lot of guns in society," since these weapons are not meant for society as such, but for the army. The army may use them in Iraq, for instance, and since Bush would never object to a member of the Coalition using arms to fight insurgents in Iraq, he wouldn't blame the Russians for selling weapons to the Danish army. He also wouldn't worry about into whose hands they might fall.

 

[WildCat]

What's wrong Claus? Couldn't find any instances of criminals or terrorists using single-shot .50 caliber rifles to cause death and destruction, so now you started this straw man thread?

BTW, did your photoshopped pic leave evidence of photoshop or not? You seem to have bailed out of that thread, or maybe you just forgot about it...