headscratcher4
Philosopher
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,776
Finally had a chance to see the Nova program on the Dover school case. Very interesting and well done. Disheartening that inspite of the effort to explain what science is and isn't and why ID and Creationism fail the test...proponents of ID are willing to ignore the explaination or the consequences of letting politics or religion guide scientific result and conclusion.
I am especially astonished (though not surprised) by the brazeness of lying that religious folks will do to subvert the science...the members of the school board in this case seemed to freely deceive in order to make their points and force the system to teach ID.
But, a couple of thoughts and was wondering what others thought.
First, the fundumentalists pushing creationism and re-dressing it as ID, were arguing that fundumentally life shows the had of a "designer" (read god). But life is a mess. The human system is fragile...life is dangerous. I mean, the argument goes that man was created by god in his image and at some level of irreduceable complexity you can see god's fingerprints. But god built some pretty crappy stuff, and some pretty mean stuff. Cancer, for example.
Also, if it is "design" and to use Behe (sp?)'s idea that if you took a part away it couldn't work and for the entity to exist it had to work from the beginning, why? If there is creator, why does it have to be recognizable or work in anyway that we understand at all? I mean, doesn't god have the supernatural on his side? Couldn't the little propeller that the cell uses and that Behe points to work, if designed by god, in a way that is completely un-understandable? It seems to me we recognize it as a machine that works for the creature, because it is recognizable in nature...but god, it would seem to me, shouldn't have to depend on the laws of nature. In short, why couldn't god build a mouse trap with three of the five pieces missing and have it work? It is, after all, god we're talking about.
Also, why "designer"? Don't the IDer's worry that you could replace "Designer" not just with god (as is sought by the wedge strategy) but also with Vishnu and Horus and Zeus? THere's this nod and wink quality about the ID argument that depends on a Christian point of view, but if you open the door to an intelligent force "designing" life, than why is it a Christian god?
Just some random thoughts...
I am especially astonished (though not surprised) by the brazeness of lying that religious folks will do to subvert the science...the members of the school board in this case seemed to freely deceive in order to make their points and force the system to teach ID.
But, a couple of thoughts and was wondering what others thought.
First, the fundumentalists pushing creationism and re-dressing it as ID, were arguing that fundumentally life shows the had of a "designer" (read god). But life is a mess. The human system is fragile...life is dangerous. I mean, the argument goes that man was created by god in his image and at some level of irreduceable complexity you can see god's fingerprints. But god built some pretty crappy stuff, and some pretty mean stuff. Cancer, for example.
Also, if it is "design" and to use Behe (sp?)'s idea that if you took a part away it couldn't work and for the entity to exist it had to work from the beginning, why? If there is creator, why does it have to be recognizable or work in anyway that we understand at all? I mean, doesn't god have the supernatural on his side? Couldn't the little propeller that the cell uses and that Behe points to work, if designed by god, in a way that is completely un-understandable? It seems to me we recognize it as a machine that works for the creature, because it is recognizable in nature...but god, it would seem to me, shouldn't have to depend on the laws of nature. In short, why couldn't god build a mouse trap with three of the five pieces missing and have it work? It is, after all, god we're talking about.
Also, why "designer"? Don't the IDer's worry that you could replace "Designer" not just with god (as is sought by the wedge strategy) but also with Vishnu and Horus and Zeus? THere's this nod and wink quality about the ID argument that depends on a Christian point of view, but if you open the door to an intelligent force "designing" life, than why is it a Christian god?
Just some random thoughts...
