Paramagnetic rock

[popsy]

I've just recently heard of adding paramagnetic rock dust to planting soil to increase the growth of plants. I found myself skeptical of the claims.

http://www.texasgrown.com/pages/articles/paramagneticrock.htm

From the site: "Evidence in both field and lab experiments has suggested that the combination of Montmorillonite and Paramagnetic rock increases vigor and germination rates in various species of plants. Six different treatments where implemented on thirty volumetrically equal growing containers. Twenty seeds of the selected species, Sorghum Sudan, were planted in the containers. I hypothesized that the plants exposed to the treatments of both the montmorillonite and paramagnetic rock via the soil would show substantial increases in vigor and germination compared to that of the unexposed specimens. Our results matched our hypothesis. The exposed specimens showed a higher growth rate and germination rate nearly twice as high as the next-highest treatment, or the unexposed specimens."

This particular site seemed to be presenting findings from actual experiments, but others touted paramagnetic water having health benefits and other woo woo type things.

Is anyone familiar with uses of paramagnetic rock?

 

[Gravy]

You're right to be skeptical. It's garden-variety woo. http://www.naturesalternatives.com/lc/lcparamagnetism.html

Try fertilizer.

 

[Oldpossum]

Oh, I don't know....

The plants could be suffering from an iron deficency, and adding the powdered paramagnetic rock, is giving them access to the Iron they need.

But it's probably a very expensive way, to enrich your soil with Iron, if that is the case...

I do know that my aquarium plants grow far more luxuriant, if I enrich the substrate soil of the tank with some Iron(III) oxide and Iron(III) sulphate.

 

[Ziggurat]

I hypothesized that the plants exposed to the treatments of both the montmorillonite and paramagnetic rock via the soil would show substantial increases in vigor and germination compared to that of the unexposed specimens. Our results matched our hypothesis. The exposed specimens showed a higher growth rate and germination rate nearly twice as high as the next-highest treatment, or the unexposed specimens."

In other words, they did no test to tell if using montmorillonite without the unspecified paramagnetic rock would produce the same results. I don't know what montmorillonite is, but I know flawed methodology when I see it.

BTW, there are LOTS of rocks which are paramagnetic, to a greater or lesser extent. Montmorillonite might be paramagnetic too, for all I know.

So I'm with the other posters. If there was a real effect, the most likely candidate causes are simply soil nutrients resulting from the chemical composition of the materials, not any magnetic properties.

 

[ranson]

Montmorillionite, AFAIK, is white clay. We use it in cosmetics at my company.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

There is no such geological term as 'paramagnetic rock' as far as I can find. The name itself is nonsense. Either they mean some form of magnetized iron as is found in lodestone, or they are merely referring to iron or some other metal which a magnet will attract.

The medical benefits of magnets have been found non-existent in research to date except in diagnostics such as MRI.

 

[Ziggurat]

There is no such geological term as 'paramagnetic rock' as far as I can find. The name itself is nonsense.

"Paramagnetic" has a simple and precise meaning as an adjective, and it is applicable to a lot of materials, including a number of rocks and minerals. If a rock is paramagnetic, it is a "paramagnetic rock" - in this sense, the term is perfectly well defined, and not at all nonsensical. But you won't find that term used by geologists, because it's not a useful classifier to them. And it's useless for us as well, since it really doesn't give any real indication of what the rock actually is (nor do I have any reason to think the magnetic properties of the soil play any role in plant growth). But while the study looks like nonsense, the term "paramagnetic rock" itself isn't, but is merely useless.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

"Paramagnetic" has a simple and precise meaning as an adjective, and it is applicable to a lot of materials, including a number of rocks and minerals. If a rock is paramagnetic, it is a "paramagnetic rock" - in this sense, the term is perfectly well defined, and not at all nonsensical. But you won't find that term used by geologists, because it's not a useful classifier to them. And it's useless for us as well, since it really doesn't give any real indication of what the rock actually is (nor do I have any reason to think the magnetic properties of the soil play any role in plant growth). But while the study looks like nonsense, the term "paramagnetic rock" itself isn't, but is merely useless.

Para is a prefix meaning beside, with, or alongside. If you think "beside, with, or alongside magnetic" isn't nonsense then we disagree.

 

[Ziggurat]

Para is a prefix meaning beside, with, or alongside. If you think "beside, with, or alongside magnetic" isn't nonsense then we disagree.

Forget "paramagnetic rock" for a moment, and just consider the word "paramagnetic". Is it nonsense? No, actually it is not. Breaking it down, as you do, only gives a vague suggestion as to its meaning, but it has a VERY precise meaning scientifically, and a long history of use. Paramagnetism is the magnetic polarization of a material parallel to an applied magnetic field, but which (unlike ferromagnetism) is completely absent in the absence of an applied field. You can find more information about paramagnetism here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramagnetism

"Paramagnetic" is simply the adjective describing a material which exhibits paramagnetism. It doesn't get used much in geology (because it makes no difference to them whether or not a rock is paramagnetic), but it gets used extensively in materials physics. So the term "paramagnetic rock" makes sense, even though it's a fairly useless classification, and of probably no relevance to plant growth.

 

[anor277]

.........................
"Paramagnetic" is simply the adjective describing a material which exhibits paramagnetism. It doesn't get used much in geology (because it makes no difference to them whether or not a rock is paramagnetic), but it gets used extensively in materials physics. So the term "paramagnetic rock" makes sense, even though it's a fairly useless classification, and of probably no relevance to plant growth.

Especially as Fe²⁺_(aq) and Fe³⁺_(aq), common plant supplements, are certainly paramagnetic.

 

[Ziggurat]

Especially as Fe²⁺_(aq) and Fe³⁺_(aq), common plant supplements, are certainly paramagnetic.

I'm not sure if you're trying to contradict what I said, but in case you are, my point isn't that there aren't any paramagnetic materials which are relevant to plant growth, but that the paramagnetic properties are not the relevant ones to that growth, but merely coincidental to the relavant properties (in this case, the chemical properties of iron ions). Same thing pops up with human physiology: iron plays a key role in hemoglobin, but it's because of the oxygen binding properties of iron, not because of the magnetic properties. Nickel is similarly magnetic, but you can't substitute it because its chemical properties are too different.

 

[anor277]

@Ziggurat, I was agreeing with you. The effect of the metal ion on plant/human physiology is coincidental to whether it is a diamagnet or a paramagnet as you say (obviously it has different chemistry in either case).

 

[Ziggurat]

@Ziggurat, I was agreeing with you. The effect of the metal ion on plant/human physiology is coincidental to whether it is a diamagnet or a paramagnet as you say (obviously it has different chemistry in either case).

Got it. Sometimes I read sarcasm where it doesn't exist . I guess I'm spending too much time in the politics forum.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well I'm confused. You are defining paramagnetic using paramagnetic in the definition. Regardless of its usefulness or whether it is a geological term or not, what does it mean?

OK, I found it myself. I stand corrected though I will have to read this more than once to get it.

 

[Ziggurat]

Well I'm confused. You are defining paramagnetic using paramagnetic in the definition.

Not exactly, though I can see why you might have thought that if you read my post too quickly. I defined paramagnetism on its own as a phenomenon, then defined paramagnetic in relation to that.

Some of the definitions I've found provided by others are simplifications which aren't always correct (for example, your link states that the magnetization of a paramagnet is linearly proportional to the applied magnetic field - that's true at low fields, but at high enough fields the magnetization will saturate), but the basic idea is pretty simple: it's just a magnetization of a material in an applied field, in the direction of the applied field (hence para- ), which doesn't remain when the field is removed. So that's two conditions: magnetization parallel to the field, and zero magnetization in the absence of a field. Violate condition 1 (magnetize antiparallel to the field) and you've got a diamagnet instead, violate condition 2 and you've got a ferromagnet.

 

[meg]

"I've just recently heard of adding paramagnetic rock dust to planting soil to increase the growth of plants. I found myself skeptical of the claims.

http://www.texasgrown.com/pages/arti...gneticrock.htm

From the site: "Evidence in both field and lab experiments has suggested that the combination of Montmorillonite and Paramagnetic rock increases vigor and germination rates in various species of plants. Six different treatments where implemented on thirty volumetrically equal growing containers. Twenty seeds of the selected species, Sorghum Sudan, were planted in the containers. I hypothesized that the plants exposed to the treatments of both the montmorillonite and paramagnetic rock via the soil would show substantial increases in vigor and germination compared to that of the unexposed specimens. Our results matched our hypothesis. The exposed specimens showed a higher growth rate and germination rate nearly twice as high as the next-highest treatment, or the unexposed specimens."

This particular site seemed to be presenting findings from actual experiments, but others touted paramagnetic water having health benefits and other woo woo type things.

Is anyone familiar with uses of paramagnetic rock?"

It is good for you to be skeptical here, I think. There is an outrageous amount of hooey rampant in the gardening industry, and I think this is hooey, for the most part, too.

The whole "paramagnetic" poo originates from a Phil Callahan, who is touted regularly by the "dirt doctor" Howard Garrett. Some of the DirtDoctor's spew is debunked/discussed here: http://froebuck.home.texas.net/toppage9.htm

Mr Callahan has written a couple of books describing the magical properties of rocks and rock powders which includes such tidbits as:

Where did these stones get this power? According to Dr. Callahan (page 56),
the crushing and grinding forces of the drifting continents caused great
quantities of cosmic energy to be trapped within the minerals that make up
stone and clay. And "one of these energies is the little understood force
called paramagnetism," which he says the ancients knew how to manipulate.

from here: http://froebuck.home.texas.net/newpage3.htm (good article, by the way, discussing much more of Mr. Callahan's woo).

Here is what I see wrong with the OP referenced "experiment".

First red flag: The choice of Sorghum Sudan. Sorghum Sudan is not really just an "ornamental grass", as stated in the experiment. It is a grass grown throughout much of US, it's primary value being that it grows well in *alkaline* soils. It is often used to reclaim soils that are too alkaline to support other cover crops. Here's a link: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/cgi-bin/CCrop.exe/show_crop_36

Sorghum Sudan tolerates a very high pH (alkaline) soil, and does not grow particularly well in a low pH (acidic) soil.

So....

Second Red Flag: The potting medium chosen for the experiment is 85% peat, a very acidic potting medium. You see where I'm going? They take a plant that likes an alkaline environment and put it into an acid environment.

What do you know?...Montmorillonite clay is alkaline, as is basalt rock powder, which is what I have found is the main ingredient of most "paramagnetic rock powders" that I have seen.

So, surprise surprise...An alkaline liking plant grew better in an experiment when more alkaline stuff was added than it did in an acidic environment. Although not much, really. The "average green mass" difference between the highest and the control was 14%. Not really enough to warrent going and buying the stuff, in my opinion.

I believe that the experiment was specifically set up in order to "prove" that you should buy this stuff.

So here's my answer to your real question, which I take to be "should I buy this stuff?" The answer to that question lies in your answer to this question: "What is the pH and type of your soil?" If your answer is "alkaline clay", then I say No. This stuff is useless to you. If your answer is "acidic silt/loam/sand", then you might actually receive some small benefit from amending your soil with these rock powders. You probably would receive more benefit from just liming your soil, though. And it's a lot less expensive. And your best bet, no matter what kind of soil you have is to add as much organic matter as you possibly can.

My two cents,
Meg

 

[popsy]

Meg, thanks so much for your reply. It's just the information I wanted. I've been having a discussion on a gardening board about "Volcanite" where I said I thought its stated properties were a sales tool, the OP said he would get credible evidence for it as the seller was a friend of his. So far, no evidence. LOL
BTW we are in an area of VERY alkaline conditions.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It is good for you to be skeptical here, I think. There is an outrageous amount of hooey rampant in the gardening industry, and I think this is hooey, for the most part, too....

Meg

That's why I concluded there was no such thing. I Googled paramagnetic and got nothing but woo sites on the first page. It wasn't until I saw the term diamagnetic used and looked for that instead that I found anything useful about paramagnetic.

 

[Soapy Sam]

meg- Could you say where you get the statement that montmorillonite (a silicate clay) and basalt are alkaline?

A word of caution. The terms "acid" and "basic" applied by geologists to igneous rocks like basalt refer to their silica content and do not have anything to do with pH. (The usage is historic and rather unfortunate).

I have never checked the pH of a solution of either clay or basalt , as both materials are insoluble in water (though dispersible in the case of the clay) .

 

[Ziggurat]

That's why I concluded there was no such thing. I Googled paramagnetic and got nothing but woo sites on the first page. It wasn't until I saw the term diamagnetic used and looked for that instead that I found anything useful about paramagnetic.

I doubt there's a single useful technical term that cannot be perverted by the pseudoscientists into something completely nonsensical. The only ones that escape such abuse are those which are too obscure to begin with.